Roberto Martinez discussion

[kithnou]

My grandmother. Ulternatively, not ruined Mirallas over this debacle of a footballer

Alternatively*

 

[deipnosophist]

Attacking the source of the statement rather than addressing the points raised. How very unlike you.

Merson and Barton are hardly beacons of wisdom, true... but even THEY can see where we are going wrong.

Think about it Dave. Don't be afraid to challenge your deeply prejudiced preconceptions.

...aye...there's the rub...

 

[kithnou]

Can't believe I'm finding myself defending Martinez here. This after agreeing with Davek yesterday, I need a lie down.

For me although you can criticise his transfers overall you can't criticise the players he's brought in. I think his refusal to address the key areas we needed the most in goal keeper and creative midfielder are big negatives. Lukaku, Deulofeu, Besic, McCarthy, Mori are all extremely good players. Lennon, Cleverley, Galloway, Joel, Barry are good buys as well. Misses would include Mcgeady Kone Etoo Alcaraz but how much did they cost? Collectively we'd make that money back just on the value rise of a player like Besic.

Raising the value of the squad has been one of Martinez's biggest achievements. Translating that into tangible success on the pitch is what he needs to work on.

Hmm... ok?

 

[deipnosophist]

Strangely I don't recall much of this when we are winning

....the winning bit was the counter factual to which I was referencing

 

[Saint Domingo]

Hmm... ok?

Which players do you have a gripe with? No denying that some have been poor but in my opinion they were largely freebie squad fillers (Alcaraz Etoo Mcgeady Traore).

 

[AndyC]

I doubt we'll get past the quarter final in the cup barring something special so I'm pretty keen to see what happens at Anfield this year.

Pretty resigned to us finishing below 10th, if that happens then a win that place will soften the blow.

Hate to say it I really do but, if we get a shellacking at Analfield akin to the 4-0 of two years ago, then the manager should expect to be axed.

It was one thing having Moyes say things like 'taking a knife to a gunfight' - it'd be an entirely different scenario should we be seen to turn up there without any kind of weaponry.

I really do want Martinez to succeed as his attacking philosophy appears right to me - at times, going forward, we are a joy to watch.

It's his and his coaching staffs deficiencies in the defensive side of the game, apparent obstinacy, glaring holes in his tactical nous and at times bizarre substitutions that will be his downfall.

 

[Tree13]

If you think RM has not being a roaring success with his transfers, then you should take a look at the rest of the Premier League managers.

Lukaku has nearly doubled in value; mc carthy has proved his worth; Besic was a steal and just needs to stay fit; Cleverley and Barry were clever frees; mc Greary cost little and we'll probably get his fees back; Galloway looks good for his age; Mori was a good buy; Robles, is so far so good and within budget. Kone has disappoinnted and has no reesale value. But Del Boy is Ronaldo-like quality.

What you may be forgetting is that RM has been working for Kenright ie no money. The improvement in EFC's squad has been fantastic. What can be questioned is his team selection and tactics but not the quality of his buys.

Yes, I'd agree with this. The mistakes Martinez has made (McGeady, Alcatraz and Kone) have at least been ones that haven't cost a lot of cash. The rest of his signings have been pretty good to say the least and notably his expensive signings have proved to be excellent value for money.

 

[kithnou]

Which players do you have a gripe with? No denying that some have been poor but in my opinion they were largely freebie squad fillers (Alcaraz Etoo Mcgeady Traore).

Just to reiterate it's great we're all have differing opinions and are having a discussion without name calling.
Free or paid for me is not a concern. I am commenting on the Manager's eye for talent in response to @jinkyali's remark he is a "classy guy who buys well and is clearly talented".

So let me ask you. Lukaku and Deulofeu apart (Galloway whom I love was one or the future when bought), which players he has brought in to the first 11, or for the immediate squad, are going to take us to where we all want to be...top 4 or 5?

Most were absolute rubbish not fit enough to wear our famous shirt. The rest good at best, mostly average, footballers who could be replaced tomorrow and I wouldn't give them a 2nd thought.

Besic and Funes Mori I will give time to as I like personally, but we could sell them tomorrow and buy the same easily and nobody apart from @MoutsGoat would shed a tear.

My point is. We are mid table where we belong. Take out Lukaku, and even with the gun Ross, we'd be in a relegation battle.

Sorry mate, but that's not the Everton I grew up with and love.

 

[mkrudden]

Really necessary?

Joel, Kone, Alcaraz, and McGeady? Who's the idiot?

Eto'o? Played him out of position. Who's the idiot?

McCarthy and Lennon? Overrated. Who's the idiot?

I'll give him Lukaku and Deulofeu.

Besic looks good but always injured. Can't judge the others yet. Clearly not included the young buys.

Have I missed anybody?

So who's the idiot?

Learn some manners and don't call people names hiding behind a keyboard.

If you have a point to make, go ahead and explain how I am wrong above in your opinion..

McCarthy overrated?
By who?

 

[deipnosophist]

Martinez is a managerial snake oil salesman. He talks a good game (or, in our case usually, a good bad luck game)...but he can't fix issues because he lacks the nous. We need to get rid asap. The Board won't of course, so all discussions on his future at EFC are moot.
I would have fired him after the Leicester game. He's simply not good enough; the John Kirwan of English football

 

[kithnou]

McCarthy overrated?
By who?

So we agree?
Or are you asking why? If so, he offers nothing going forward and if we were to sell him tomorrow,I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought as we could get the same or better.
Basically mate, the Manager and his Wigan buys I could do without

 

[The Mighty Quint]

We've conceded 1 goal in the last 4 games, and it was a flukey looping header at that.

I've seen improvement in our defending and I'm not letting that freak result on Saturday sway me, things look to be getting better at the back, we played well enough on Saturday to have battered West Brom, we should be sat here with 3 straight wins.

I think we'll have a strong finish to the season.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Just to reiterate it's great we're all have differing opinions and are having a discussion without name calling.
Free or paid for me is not a concern. I am commenting on the Manager's eye for talent in response to @jinkyali's remark he is a "classy guy who buys well and is clearly talented".

So let me ask you. Lukaku and Deulofeu apart (Galloway whom I love was one or the future when bought), which players he has brought in to the first 11, or for the immediate squad, are going to take us to where we all want to be...top 4 or 5?

Most were absolute rubbish not fit enough to wear our famous shirt. The rest good at best, mostly average, footballers who could be replaced tomorrow and I wouldn't give them a 2nd thought.

Besic and Funes Mori I will give time to as I like personally, but we could sell them tomorrow and buy the same easily and nobody apart from @MoutsGoat would shed a tear.

My point is. We are mid table where we belong. Take out Lukaku, and even with the gun Ross, we'd be in a relegation battle.

Sorry mate, but that's not the Everton I grew up with and love.

Agree with you on his underperformance completely. Having Lukaku hitting 30 a season and being bottom half is woeful.

I rate Besic massively far above Barry and McCarthy so I would put him in with Deulofeu and Lukaku (whether Martinez shares that view is an issue in and of itself).

I think looking for him to bring in class players every window is an unreasonable ask, even City struggle to bring in players of Aguero and Silva quality all the time. They spent 100s of millions on Sterling, Mangala, Otamendi, Fernando Bony who are arguably worse than the players they replaced and haven't improved then at all.

Lukaku and Del should be game changers, he's brought through Barkley and Stones, Besic Funes Mori Galloway Lennon all very good players in my view. Who knows what Niasse will be?

I don't think it's a bad return in my view. I think money was wasted on Kone and McCarthy, and his free signings haven't worked out (Cleverley being a decent value for money squad player the exception).

My main gripes remain his failure to get a keeper or a creative midfielder which have been priority number 1 and 2 for about 4 Windows now.

All of this said, he has had a lot of money and not translated that into performance on the pitch even if individually the quality of the squad is good.

 

[kithnou]

We've conceded 1 goal in the last 4 games, and it was a flukey looping header at that.

I've seen improvement in our defending and I'm not letting that freak result on Saturday sway me, things look to be getting better at the back, we played well enough on Saturday to have battered West Brom, we should be sat here with 3 straight wins.

I think we'll have a strong finish to the season.

I hope you are right mate. I really do. But I am willing to bet they are more likely to get you all excited, all teased up...then flattened in frustration when we lose at home to a Bournemouth or a Norwich

 

[kithnou]

Agree with you on his underperformance completely. Having Lukaku hitting 30 a season and being bottom half is woeful.

I rate Besic massively far above Barry and McCarthy so I would put him in with Deulofeu and Lukaku (whether Martinez shares that view is an issue in and of itself).

I think looking for him to bring in class players every window is an unreasonable ask, even City struggle to bring in players of Aguero and Silva quality all the time. They spent 100s of millions on Sterling, Mangala, Otamendi, Fernando Bony who are arguably worse than the players they replaced and haven't improved then at all.

Lukaku and Del should be game changers, he's brought through Barkley and Stones, Besic Funes Mori Galloway Lennon all very good players in my view. Who knows what Niasse will be?

I don't think it's a bad return in my view. I think money was wasted on Kone and McCarthy, and his free signings haven't worked out (Cleverley being a decent value for money squad player the exception).

My main gripes remain his failure to get a keeper or a creative midfielder which have been priority number 1 and 2 for about 4 Windows now.

All of this said, he has had a lot of money and not translated that into performance on the pitch even if individually the quality of the squad is good.

So to cut it short, do you think Roberto Martinez has been a success or not with his transfers?
My response would be that two are keeping him above a fail.