Roberto Martinez discussion

[mkrudden]

If Martinez had of put Mirallas on instead of Kone, would you have been critical of him?

And we had another player on the pitch who was primed with having to find an isolated Lukaku? Yes.

We needed a striker on the pitch to try and catch the attention of those defenders.

 

[nsno-chris]

Yeah...our defense against WBA was awful, wasn't it? Gave up a fluke goal and completely dominated the game. Created chances with 10-11 behind the ball. On another day we score 3 or 4. Making far too much out of this game. It was a game we were unlucky not to win. Nothing more, nothing less. Can't group the WBA game in with some of the dire performances we've had...we played well and should have won...it just didn't happen. One of those days.

Yawn.

Not talking about yesterday in particular the same way the op wasn't.

Results and figures don't lie. How many teams have taken points at goodison this year and how many have we conceded in the last 18 months. Don't let the truth get in your way

 

[Khalekan]

I could be wrong but I'm sure there right back was a center half out of position? Did we try and target him with a winger going at him? Nope, in fact i don't even know what tactics we did have, whatever they were after 30 minutes it wasn't working and he didn't even try and change anything, so many bodies in midfield who can all do the same thing, and what we did need was stuck on the bench, just pathetic.

Indeed.

Great points.

And it all boils down to the fact that Deulofeu should have been the first name in the teamsheet yesterday.

Boys like him have a better chance of breaking down a massed defence than other player we have in the squad.

IMO he would have been better leaving McCarthy or The Clev out and finding a way to accommodate his most gifted player.

 

[mkrudden]

• 13Courtois
• 2Ivanovic
• 5Zouma
• 26TerryBooked at 90mins
• 28Azpilicueta
• 12Mikel
• 21Matic

Dunno, that looks pretty defensive to me.

I'm talking about the goal itself.

I've just watched it now. We hit them on the break (something you can only do when the opposition leave their own half).

As they are trying to organise themselves, Mirrallas peels off from the back 4 and gets a shot away after the cross has come in.

That simply would not have happened yesterday with that WBA side.

 

[Goat]

I don't think of Kev as a striker. I think Kev is the better player, undoubtedly.

KM though is someone who is brilliant one on one, out wide cutting in. When he does that he can either shoot or look for the only player in amongst a sea of Red and Blue - Lukaku.

Back to goal? KM? No one can actually want to see that?

Mirallas played as a striker for 2 years in Greece, yes, I know its Greece, but Kone would struggle in Walton Park 11 a side.

 

[orly]

And we had another player on the pitch who was primed with having to find an isolated Lukaku? Yes.

We needed a striker on the pitch to try and catch the attention of those defenders.

All WBA wanted yesterday was a single goal and to defend.

Once we went a goal down (remember - no home wins when we concede first) for once, just for once, we should have abandoned a system that wasn't working, taken off Cleverley, put on a proper winger and just bombed forward. Play behind them for once, not just in front of the oppo back four.

But no - it's not the system that isn't working (says Roberto), it must be those pesky players not doing it right. So let's stick Kone out wide and ask him to drift in - which he barely does as he is almost inert.

At this stage, the results Everton are getting means there needs to be change. Personally, I think it is with the staff (coaches and manager) but failing this, we need to try a new system. The current one has one massive flaw - concede first, and we'll spend the rest of the game against rigid banks of four and get hit on the counter.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Indeed.

Great points.

And it all boils down to the fact that Deulofeu should have been the first name in the teamsheet yesterday.

Boys like him have a better chance of breaking down a massed defence than other player we have in the squad.

IMO he would have been better leaving McCarthy or The Clev out and finding a way to accommodate his most gifted player.

Same system in every home game this season with an unbalanced one winger formation. Doesn't matter who we're playing he just adopts the same old gameplan. It's getting quite embarassing how predictable and one dimensional we are at home. So easy to counteract.

 

[mkrudden]

Mirallas played as a striker for 2 years in Greece, yes, I know its Greece, but Kone would struggle in Walton Park 11 a side.

He played as the Henry type of striker, ahead of the midfielders but always veering slightly left where the space is. He would then look to cut in and get shots away as you say in a poor league.

I am not in any way shape or form saying KM isn't the better player. I am saying that imo you don't throw another player on who loves it out wide when there are 4 animals stifling our only striker when the ball comes into the box.

The fact we don't have better than Kone to turn to is the real point of this debate.

 

[Goat]

I would have honestly, rather have put Mori upfront and played Kone at CB.

 

[streeky]

Indeed.

Great points.

And it all boils down to the fact that Deulofeu should have been the first name in the teamsheet yesterday.

Boys like him have a better chance of breaking down a massed defence than other player we have in the squad.

IMO he would have been better leaving McCarthy or The Clev out and finding a way to accommodate his most gifted player.

What would Gerry do that Lennon didn't? When you have a striker that slept through the game the wingers were pretty irellevant.

 

[orly]

I'm talking about the goal itself.

I've just watched it now. We hit them on the break (something you can only do when the opposition leave their own half).

As they are trying to organise themselves, Mirrallas peels off from the back 4 and gets a shot away after the cross has come in.

That simply would not have happened yesterday with that WBA side.

But there you have it

Mirallas got into the box, and into a goal scoring position.

Is Kone ever really going to do that? He's got something like 6 league goals in 37 league games, and 3 of those were at home to Sunderland.

It's not like he is this Teddy Sheringham figure that smartly brings the rest into play. He lumbers about a bit, loses the ball, takes an extra touch, then looks around a bit exasperated.

Unless you have an effective style of play - and 20 wins from well over 60 games would suggest it isn't that effective - you cannot hope for low tier players like Cleverley and Kone to suddenly come alive and be effective.

 

[streeky]

I would have honestly, rather have put Mori upfront and played Kone at CB.

Pitting mori up front is something I thought of. Put him on Olsen and let rom step out of the area ,because he is the only player we have who. Can shoot straight.

 

[Caolam]

Yeah...our defense against WBA was awful, wasn't it? Gave up a fluke goal and completely dominated the game. Created chances with 10-11 behind the ball. On another day we score 3 or 4. Making far too much out of this game. It was a game we were unlucky not to win. Nothing more, nothing less. Can't group the WBA game in with some of the dire performances we've had...we played well and should have won...it just didn't happen. One of those days.

If we were in the top six and picking up points at ease I could agree with this, you do get games where things just don't go your way.

We couldn't't beat Norwich, Swansea, West Ham or Bournemouth so yesterday wasn't one of those days, it was another one of those days.

 

[Goat]

He played as the Henry type of striker, ahead of the midfielders but always veering slightly left where the space is. He would then look to cut in and get shots away as you say in a poor league.

I am not in any way shape or form saying KM isn't the better player. I am saying that imo you don't throw another player on who loves it out wide when there are 4 animals stifling our only striker when the ball comes into the box.

The fact we don't have better than Kone to turn to is the real point of this debate.

Mirallas scores goals, he scores from nothing sometimes, hes a match winner, a moody narky little match winner, I agree the options were somewhat limited, but honestly, you and Martinez appear to be the only people in the WORLD who think sticking Kone on was the "best and only option", he had a few other options, Mirallas for The Clev, Geri for The Clev, Mirallas for Barry, Mirallas for Jags, Mirallas for McCarthy, hell even Mirallas for Robles, we didnt even need a keeper once they scored.

As I say, I do agree he had "limited options", but im struggling to think of a WORSE sub he could have made other than the 1 he did.

Maybe Osman on Lukaku off.

 

[mkrudden]

But there you have it

Mirallas got into the box, and into a goal scoring position.

Is Kone ever really going to do that? He's got something like 6 league goals in 37 league games, and 3 of those were at home to Sunderland.

It's not like he is this Teddy Sheringham figure that smartly brings the rest into play. He lumbers about a bit, loses the ball, takes an extra touch, then looks around a bit exasperated.

Unless you have an effective style of play - and 20 wins from well over 60 games would suggest it isn't that effective - you cannot hope for low tier players like Cleverley and Kone to suddenly come alive and be effective.

We need better than Kone. I don't think shoving another winger on is the best play.

However, Kone did nothing yesterday so you may be right, KM may have come on and got the goal.