Roberto Martinez discussion

[mkrudden]

All this 'we have a young team be patient' argument is illogical. Stones, Lukaku and perhaps more may not even be here next season let alone in 2 seasons time or whenever this magical 'click' moment supposedly happens. It's a great investment strategy that's for sure, no one is money balling better than Martinez. Is it bringing him consistent league performances? After almost 3 seasons he's nowhere near that. If you're happy with Everton being a finishing school for the top clubs whilst deluding yourself that we're going to end up with the finished product that's fine, continue on your ideological trip Bobby. If you want to see us improve through consistently high league positions and cracking the top 4 (that impossible task that both Spurs and Leicester will do this season) then it's adios Roberto.

So you'd have gone for Jordan Rhodes, Townsend, Shelvey? Maturer, the latter 2 having more premier league experience?

For a combined 35million.

I'll see your 3 experienced premier league players, and bid you Lukaku, Deulofeu and Besic.

35million.

 

[Tigger]

I take your point generally, especially the point about Howard, but he is equally vocal about wanting patience...

Roberto Martinez has refuted suggestions Everton are underachieving, insisting he is building a squad that will be competitive for years to come.

Everton - knocked out by Manchester City in the semi-finals of the Capital One Cup on Wednesday night - are 12th in the Premier League having won just six matches all season, with only one victory in their last 10.

Martinez has led his side to just 30 wins in 81 matches since the start of the 2014-15 season, with Everton keeping only 21 clean sheets in that time. The FA Cup now represents their only realistic chance of success this season and Sunday sees Everton face a tricky tie at League Two Carlisle.

You cannot be underachieving when this team is new," Martinez said.

"This team has been formed over the last two-and-a-half years and we are developing something that is going to be very powerful for the future

Romelu Lukaku (left) and Ross Barkley have been two of Everton's top performers
"That process is not going to be overnight or straightforward. You need to go through painful experiences to develop the know-how of a winning team.

"In my eyes we have one of the most competitive squads in the league with four or five players with the best potential in Europe and that has been down to a clear strategy.

"We have achieved this squad not having the blank cheque of £500m, which other clubs have had to become a competitive team overnight.

We have an overall approach of wanting to get into the top four and we are showing signs we are starting to do that.
Roberto Martinez

"It would be very easy for us to say we can't really compete against the top four and accept where we are and fight every short-term target but we have an overall approach of wanting to get into the top four and we are showing signs we are starting to do that.

"Are we going to do that overnight? One hundred percent no. You have to learn as a team how you can compete in those matches and we are right in the middle of that process.

"I understand expectations and the history and heritage at Everton and I think we are getting very close to getting back to the glory years that we had but it is not going to be easy or pain-free."

Much is expected from Everton defender John Stones
Martinez admits he understands the criticism but has called for patience to allow him to get things right.

"As a manager you need to accept that we need to get wins," he said. "I will never come out with excuses and try to justify lack of wins.

"I am extremely aware of the potential we have in the club and we should be working under the expectation of winning games and titles.


Paul Merson previews Carlisle v Everton and Chelsea v MK Dons
"I feel we are close to getting what the fans deserved but I'll accept any criticism and I'll be the one fronting that because I share their frustrations at a lack of wins.

"But I am the first one who has a strong belief we will be successful at the end of it."

Yes Bobby lad pipe the haters right down

 

[Saint Domingo]

So you'd have gone for Jordan Rhodes, Townsend, Shelvey? Maturer, the latter 2 having more premier league experience?

For a combined 35million.

I'll see your 3 experienced premier league players, and bid you Lukaku, Deulofeu and Besic.

35million.

Bizarre argument. Where have I said we should go for those players? As Everton manager Martinez SHOULD be tasked with a certain level of success. These days that is sadly closer to Europa league qualification than winning the league. How he achieves that is up to him. If he wants to do it by buying a load of old heads it's one way to do it but he'd be responsible for the later squad refresh. Instead he chose to pick up younger players because you can access a better level of quality at a cheaper price. This is true, and the quality is there undoubtedly but the piece missing is when they have to deliver on it. When this has occurred he's come out with the excuse 'they're young players you need to be patient'. It's a redundant argument because some of them will be gone soon and the cycle will repeat. Meanwhile his minimum target (what should be his minimum target) remains unfulfilled for two seasons in a row (if we continue in this current form).

 

[Zatara]

Bizarre argument. Where have I said we should go for those players? As Everton manager Martinez SHOULD be tasked with a certain level of success. These days that is sadly closer to Europa league qualification than winning the league. How he achieves that is up to him. If he wants to do it by buying a load of old heads it's one way to do it but he'd be responsible for the later squad refresh. Instead he chose to pick up younger players because you can access a better level of quality at a cheaper price. This is true, and the quality is there undoubtedly but the piece missing is when they have to deliver on it. When this has occurred he's come out with the excuse 'they're young players you need to be patient'. It's a redundant argument because some of them will be gone soon and the cycle will repeat. Meanwhile his minimum target (what should be his minimum target) remains unfulfilled for two seasons in a row (if we continue in this current form).

You dont seem to understand that we have not got £500mil to buy a squad full of superstars.

Due to this we have a blend of young players with immense potential and some old codgers like Howard / Jags / Barry and Kone +8 or 9 others left over from moyes reign and short term stopgaps.

Either we follow this model OR sign a load of mid level players to get top 6 each season....with this model as it keeps being built then it could achieve top 4.

This selling Stones and Lukaku bizarre argument you keep pedalling makes zero sense. These are just two players at the end of the day, you need to see the whole vision which includes 8 players at the moment and could increase in the summer again.

You seem to want immediate success but this is not possible when comparing money spent and also the fact that these players will be inconsistent and the older ones will not be at their prime.

In a couple of seasons we should have a tremendous squad and instead of being excited you seem to think that they will all miraculously "click"OR that all of these stars will leave.

There is no evidence of that at all.

 

[BlueToff]

So you'd have gone for Jordan Rhodes, Townsend, Shelvey? Maturer, the latter 2 having more premier league experience?

For a combined 35million.

I'll see your 3 experienced premier league players, and bid you Lukaku, Deulofeu and Besic.

35million.

People don't understand that it's about the players you buy, not always the money you spend.

 

[vagant59]

One of the best keepers in the league stood behind two seasoned, international CBs who have played pretty much every game together this season.

Quality and continuity.

I agree about the keeper and the CBs, however I don't think Howard picks himself and we play 2 DMs in front of our CBs. So the problem is with the way they are playing or not which is the norm rather than the exception.

You dont seem to understand that we have not got £500mil to buy a squad full of superstars.

Due to this we have a blend of young players with immense potential and some old codgers like Howard / Jags / Barry and Kone +8 or 9 others left over from moyes reign and short term stopgaps.

Either we follow this model OR sign a load of mid level players to get top 6 each season....with this model as it keeps being built then it could achieve top 4.

This selling Stones and Lukaku bizarre argument you keep pedalling makes zero sense. These are just two players at the end of the day, you need to see the whole vision which includes 8 players at the moment and could increase in the summer again.

You seem to want immediate success but this is not possible when comparing money spent and also the fact that these players will be inconsistent and the older ones will not be at their prime.

In a couple of seasons we should have a tremendous squad and instead of being excited you seem to think that they will all miraculously "click"OR that all of these stars will leave.

There is no evidence of that at all.

I understand where you are coming from but this is a very risky strategy to adopt
1 As has been said before some of the players will leave, so you will never end up with the finished article
2 Young players confidence is very brittle, and with so many in the team it could very easily end in disaster if things don't go to plan

 

[Jags..class]

Martinez stills need the ruthless streak in him. He should drop Howard and stones tonight.

 

[chippy1722]

2013 league appearances
Deloufeu 25
Lukaku 31
McCarthy 34
Barkley 34
Coleman 36
Stones 21

Why didn't these inconsistent kids stop us breaking our record points total in 2013 but are now the reason we are so poor despite being 2 years older and a lot more experienced and in most cases improved

The only players with a significant number of appearances that year who aren't with us any more
Distin
McGeady
Naismith

Players added since then who have featured substantially (this ones off the top of my head)
Lennon
Besic
Funes Mori
Galloway
Eto

So after 2.5 years of Robertos coaching with mostly the same core players we have gone from 5th to 11th to currently 12th

You can't say stuff like that, if you quote actual facts your a plotter, you have to ignore the facts and just use an opinion based on nothing.

 

[Jags..class]

We may aswell stick with Martinez until the end of the season and see how we are. We might win the f.a cup and get into Europe.

 

[Ashtonian]

You dont seem to understand that we have not got £500mil to buy a squad full of superstars.

Due to this we have a blend of young players with immense potential and some old codgers like Howard / Jags / Barry and Kone +8 or 9 others left over from moyes reign and short term stopgaps.

Either we follow this model OR sign a load of mid level players to get top 6 each season....with this model as it keeps being built then it could achieve top 4.

This selling Stones and Lukaku bizarre argument you keep pedalling makes zero sense. These are just two players at the end of the day, you need to see the whole vision which includes 8 players at the moment and could increase in the summer again.

You seem to want immediate success but this is not possible when comparing money spent and also the fact that these players will be inconsistent and the older ones will not be at their prime.

In a couple of seasons we should have a tremendous squad and instead of being excited you seem to think that they will all miraculously "click"OR that all of these stars will leave.

There is no evidence of that at all.

Please enlighten me, what the hell is a mid level player? Name some please

 

[bluewally]

We may aswell stick with Martinez until the end of the season and see how we are. We might win the f.a cup and get into Europe.

And sure if we don't we may as well give him until Christmas next year. he might turn it around.

 

[Jags..class]

And sure if we don't we may as well give him until Christmas next year. he might turn it around.

He could turn it around, I like his ideas and he might be able to pull this off but he got to grow a ruthless streak and get rid of players when they are past it. There is no loyal in the game. I'm hoping he just being loyal to Howard rather then not seeing that he past it

 

[Ashtonian]

He could turn it around, I like his ideas and he might be able to pull this off but he got to grow a ruthless streak and get rid of players when they are past it. There is no loyal in the game. I'm hoping he just being loyal to Howard rather then not seeing that he past it

There is loyalty and there is blind loyalty mate. When you go a whole season without winning much, ok you give it time. When you do it twice and still back the manager on a what if scenario then that is just ridiculous.

 

[bluewally]

How long do you give him. He's had 2 and a half seasons. 3/4/5 seasons. At what stage do we start to think maybe he can't turn it around

 

[ijjysmith]

How long do you give him. He's had 2 and a half seasons. 3/4/5 seasons. At what stage do we start to think maybe he can't turn it around

What we as fans think really doesn't matter to be honest.