Roberto Martinez discussion

[ilikecheese]

Been posted in another thread, think it should be placed here also as it's relevant

The Guardian

Gareth Barry criticises Everton for not closing out winning positions
• Barry: ‘We’ve been in this situation before and not learned our lesson’
• Stoke loss was third time in six games Everton failed to preserve lead


Gareth Barry congratulates Romelu Lukaku after scoring his second goal against Stoke City. Photograph: Carl Recine/Reuters
Andy Hunter

Tuesday 29 December 2015 22.30 GMT

Gareth Barry has fiercely criticised Everton’s mentality and tactics under Roberto Martínez and said both are to blame for the team’s inability to protect a lead.

The experienced midfielder, Everton’s current captain in the absence of Phil Jagielka, revealed his frustrations after Stoke City won 4-3 at Goodison Park on Monday despite being 3-2 behind with 10 minutes to play. It was the third time in six Premier League games that Everton have failed to preserve a lead and left Martínez’s team 11th in the table, nine points adrift of fourth place and nine points above the relegation zone.

Everton’s manager once again spoke of his young players’ need to learn after the Stoke defeat and his preference for a team that out-scores opponents rather than one that “just wants to be solid and grind out wins by the odd goal.” But Martínez’s approach and calls for patience evidently jar with one of his most influential players.

Barry said: “We have just got ourselves to blame. We’ve been in this situation many times before and clearly we have not learned our lesson. You get that sort of game and then find yourself ahead and with 12, 15 minutes to go, we’ve not got ourselves in a position, or in formation on the pitch, to close the game out.

“We need to change our mentality and as a team being able to realise the situation of the game. We have got attacking players that do want to score goals but once you get ahead in an end-to-end game like that there is an opportunity to win, which is the third goal for us, and we need to close the game out. We have to change our mentality that we don’t need to score again but need to keep a clean sheet to win the game.”

The 34-year-old’s outspoken attack presents a fresh problem for Martínez, who lost midfielders James McCarthy and Tom Cleverley to injury against Stoke and witnessed another costly error from the goalkeeper Tim Howard. There were sarcastic cheers for the USA international from Everton supporters when he collected a cross in the first half of Monday’s defeat, with Howard responding with sarcastic applause towards the Gwladys Street. He was later culpable for Joselu’s 80th minute equaliser.

But Barry added: “We are not blaming individuals. It was a dangerous ball. Tim has made a decision, not an easy one but on another day he gets a touch and it doesn’t fall to one of their players. As a senior player I will take responsibility (for the result) but it is a team job.

“We have had meetings about it. It is a team job, we have spoken about it so everyone knows their jobs. Unfortunately we let ourselves down.

Sounds like he's saying the players are to blame. Both as individuals and as a team.

 

[chicoazul]

"Please remain calm and return to your seats"

Crying at this.

 

[chicoazul]

Doesn't matter how many paragraphs you do or how outraged you act - you lids are not going to chance each other's minds.

Keeps you all occupied in one place on the forum though I suppose.

 

[ilikecheese]

Doesn't matter how many paragraphs you do or how outraged you act - you lids are not going to chance each other's minds.

And Martinez isn't going anywhere.

 

[chicoazul]

And Martinez isn't going anywhere.

Apart from down the table the Spanish ted.

 

[Khalekan]

Madness how two exceptional examples get rooted out as though they are relevant to our situation.

The moral of this story is it's excellent if you believe in miracles.

Don't you?

 

[dannyboy]

Don't you?

Having supported Everton since 1996 I tend to steer clear of the optimism. It just hurts that bit more when we fail.

The problem comparing it with Kendall and Ferguson is the complete change in eras. It's nice thinking but it's not realistic.

 

[Zatara]

You cant just believe a story in a paper, theyve just basically said we need a new spine.

What we need is a GK/LW/CM and also for the squad a RB/CF and thats before the summer clearout of out of contract players.

Papers are reporting that our recent troubles have left Martinez wanting to strengthen three positions in January, partially funded by the sale of Mirallas and Naismith.

Those positions are:

Striker
Midfielder
Central Defender



Not goalkeeper. Depending on the accuracy of these reports, if Martinez truly does not see an issue with Howard in goal, I've lost all faith in him.

 

[LAToffee]

Been posted in another thread, think it should be placed here also as it's relevant

The Guardian

Gareth Barry criticises Everton for not closing out winning positions
• Barry: ‘We’ve been in this situation before and not learned our lesson’
• Stoke loss was third time in six games Everton failed to preserve lead


Gareth Barry congratulates Romelu Lukaku after scoring his second goal against Stoke City. Photograph: Carl Recine/Reuters
Andy Hunter

Tuesday 29 December 2015 22.30 GMT

Gareth Barry has fiercely criticised Everton’s mentality and tactics under Roberto Martínez and said both are to blame for the team’s inability to protect a lead.

The experienced midfielder, Everton’s current captain in the absence of Phil Jagielka, revealed his frustrations after Stoke City won 4-3 at Goodison Park on Monday despite being 3-2 behind with 10 minutes to play. It was the third time in six Premier League games that Everton have failed to preserve a lead and left Martínez’s team 11th in the table, nine points adrift of fourth place and nine points above the relegation zone.

Everton’s manager once again spoke of his young players’ need to learn after the Stoke defeat and his preference for a team that out-scores opponents rather than one that “just wants to be solid and grind out wins by the odd goal.” But Martínez’s approach and calls for patience evidently jar with one of his most influential players.

Barry said: “We have just got ourselves to blame. We’ve been in this situation many times before and clearly we have not learned our lesson. You get that sort of game and then find yourself ahead and with 12, 15 minutes to go, we’ve not got ourselves in a position, or in formation on the pitch, to close the game out.

“We need to change our mentality and as a team being able to realise the situation of the game. We have got attacking players that do want to score goals but once you get ahead in an end-to-end game like that there is an opportunity to win, which is the third goal for us, and we need to close the game out. We have to change our mentality that we don’t need to score again but need to keep a clean sheet to win the game.”

The 34-year-old’s outspoken attack presents a fresh problem for Martínez, who lost midfielders James McCarthy and Tom Cleverley to injury against Stoke and witnessed another costly error from the goalkeeper Tim Howard. There were sarcastic cheers for the USA international from Everton supporters when he collected a cross in the first half of Monday’s defeat, with Howard responding with sarcastic applause towards the Gwladys Street. He was later culpable for Joselu’s 80th minute equaliser.

But Barry added: “We are not blaming individuals. It was a dangerous ball. Tim has made a decision, not an easy one but on another day he gets a touch and it doesn’t fall to one of their players. As a senior player I will take responsibility (for the result) but it is a team job.

“We have had meetings about it. It is a team job, we have spoken about it so everyone knows their jobs. Unfortunately we let ourselves down.

Damning and true. Hope the right folks are listening and responding positively not defensively (you know what I mean!)

 

[LAToffee]

Sounds like he's saying the players are to blame. Both as individuals and as a team.

Key phrase for me is "formation." That quietly points finger at Bobby. And frankly, in the case of Stoke, I agree. That was farcical. Our inability to defend late comebacks is soul-destroying: it is undermining the players and fans belief.

 

[ilikecheese]

Key phrase for me is "formation." That quietly points finger at Bobby. And frankly, in the case of Stoke, I agree. That was farcical. Our inability to defend late comebacks is soul-destroying: it is undermining the players and fans belief.

lol @ pointing at 1 word in a rant about how crap the players have been as a team at defending a lead.

OK M8.

 

[Huyton Layne]

Doesn't matter how many paragraphs you do or how outraged you act - you lids are not going to chance each other's minds.

Keeps you all occupied in one place on the forum though I suppose.

Gave me something to read while I dropped a deuce so it did serve one purpose

 

[Zatara]

@davek i think you're generally spot on when it comes to Martinez (which isnt really a compliment in the sense that its stating the obvious, although it is amazing how others cant see it!).

Couple of things though:

I notice you listed Pantillimon as a "realistic" signing. The Sunderland fans have been calling for their u21 keeper to come back from his loan to replace him...

Also, if we're looking at Stones,Lukaku,Deulofeu,Barkley and other top stars then i firmly believe that now Martinez has brought in top quality into the first eleven he absolutely MUST focus on now bringing in the X-FACTOR type players (which Moyes used to say he wanted) to take us up another level.

For me, i'd say another player on the left which may be Yarmolenko or someone in the Deulofeu quality bracket. He then needs to bring in two absolutely top players -- one in central midfield to dominate teams, this could be a Pirlo type or a Vieira type.

However with a dodgy keeper we saw when Schmeichel left Utd they went through a bad patch. It shows the importance of that position and bringing in the "right" player.

I dont know if this Boyko is a good player nor whether one of the Europeans like Horn or Karius could suit the Premier league....but we absolutely need to bring in someone who can make the rest of the squad sit up and think "Wow, this is someone to take us to the next level" and believe Martinez is taking us in the right direction with his rebuilding.

If we went and brought in Yarmolenko (or similar this window) for the Left OR a dominant centre midfielder then i would expect absolute top quality now....the same should stand for a goalkeeper.

There should be no reason with sales and tv money why we cant sign Jack Butland £20-30mil for a player we can see is going to be Englands 1st choice for 15 years would certainly fill our other England players with belief...


Secondly, i love watching us play this attacking style. People are calling it "kamikaze" football and it can appear that way due to us missing a dominant Centre midfielder and having to play McCarthy there when he "should" be in defensive midfield. Instead we have Barry there who may well be amazing individually but i feel isnt mobile enough for this team for several reasons. Also of course the players have panic attacks due to howard in goal.

I think the "George Graham" way of playing was of course successful but boring. I think there needs to be a balance and we dont even know if he likes Baines, jagielka or Coleman as they arent his signings.

The problem with Martinez style is that it requires a certain type of player in each position for it to work and we wont have them for another year or so as he rebuilds...

Hes basically said "This is how we play" and i think will stick to his principles here even if it means in the short term we will lose points. So,whilst it is exciting it wont be successful until he has the right players throughout the team and the squad.

This is obvious of course and i for one wouldnt want to be like Mourinho at Chelsea who had some great attacking players but played a negative style of football.

I think rather than putting people into 2 categories its more like:

1-- Nervous we will lose key players who they like due to the time it takes to rebuild.

2-- Those who miss Moyes

3-- Those who just dont like Martinez

4-- Those who are impatient

5-- Those who can see he is rebuilding


Where would we be now if we had sacked Kendall or even Man Utd if they had sacked Ferguson?

I think Martinez has clearly a defining moment in the summer and a big opportunity to clear out players out of contract and bring in his own men...he will have the money to do it and should thrive on the pressure from impatient fans.

 

[LAToffee]

lol @ pointing at 1 word in a rant about how crap the players have been as a team at defending a lead.

OK M8.

Actually I think it is. I have been a consistent supporter of Martinez and remain so. But I think Barry's right and I think that "rant" implicates the manager in the overall inability to defend leads. And I'm glad he's ranting. Anyone who isn't disgusted by the last minute meltdowns against Bournemouth and Stoke needs their head examining. I support the team and the manager but I'n not a delusional fanatic (and neither apparently is one of our most consistent players this season).

 

[chicoazul]

@davek i think you're generally spot on when it comes to Martinez (which isnt really a compliment in the sense that its stating the obvious, although it is amazing how others cant see it!).

Couple of things though:

I notice you listed Pantillimon as a "realistic" signing. The Sunderland fans have been calling for their u21 keeper to come back from his loan to replace him...

Also, if we're looking at Stones,Lukaku,Deulofeu,Barkley and other top stars then i firmly believe that now Martinez has brought in top quality into the first eleven he absolutely MUST focus on now bringing in the X-FACTOR type players (which Moyes used to say he wanted) to take us up another level.

For me, i'd say another player on the left which may be Yarmolenko or someone in the Deulofeu quality bracket. He then needs to bring in two absolutely top players -- one in central midfield to dominate teams, this could be a Pirlo type or a Vieira type.

However with a dodgy keeper we saw when Schmeichel left Utd they went through a bad patch. It shows the importance of that position and bringing in the "right" player.

I dont know if this Boyko is a good player nor whether one of the Europeans like Horn or Karius could suit the Premier league....but we absolutely need to bring in someone who can make the rest of the squad sit up and think "Wow, this is someone to take us to the next level" and believe Martinez is taking us in the right direction with his rebuilding.

If we went and brought in Yarmolenko (or similar this window) for the Left OR a dominant centre midfielder then i would expect absolute top quality now....the same should stand for a goalkeeper.

There should be no reason with sales and tv money why we cant sign Jack Butland £20-30mil for a player we can see is going to be Englands 1st choice for 15 years would certainly fill our other England players with belief...


Secondly, i love watching us play this attacking style. People are calling it "kamikaze" football and it can appear that way due to us missing a dominant Centre midfielder and having to play McCarthy there when he "should" be in defensive midfield. Instead we have Barry there who may well be amazing individually but i feel isnt mobile enough for this team for several reasons. Also of course the players have panic attacks due to howard in goal.

I think the "George Graham" way of playing was of course successful but boring. I think there needs to be a balance and we dont even know if he likes Baines, jagielka or Coleman as they arent his signings.

The problem with Martinez style is that it requires a certain type of player in each position for it to work and we wont have them for another year or so as he rebuilds...

Hes basically said "This is how we play" and i think will stick to his principles here even if it means in the short term we will lose points. So,whilst it is exciting it wont be successful until he has the right players throughout the team and the squad.

This is obvious of course and i for one wouldnt want to be like Mourinho at Chelsea who had some great attacking players but played a negative style of football.

I think rather than putting people into 2 categories its more like:

1-- Nervous we will lose key players who they like due to the time it takes to rebuild.

2-- Those who miss Moyes

3-- Those who just dont like Martinez

4-- Those who are impatient

5-- Those who can see he is rebuilding


Where would we be now if we had sacked Kendall or even Man Utd if they had sacked Ferguson?

I think Martinez has clearly a defining moment in the summer and a big opportunity to clear out players out of contract and bring in his own men...he will have the money to do it and should thrive on the pressure from impatient fans.

LETS PLAY FIFA CAREER MODE in the Martinez thread. Flagged.