Roberto Martinez discussion

[ianefc]

Spot on this, Howard was amazing, but in 83 we didn't know this yet, just like United fans didn't know at first how good Sir Alex was going to be, Martinez on the other hand we know all we need to know about him now, one flucky 5th and a lucky cup doesn't hide the reality which is plain to see.

We have some great players right now at Goodison and we are in danger of losing them while he is here, with all the money that is coming into the Premier League next season it is going to be even harder for us, there is a lot of talent in the bottom half right now. Next year for a club which has its playing side managed as bad as Everton it is going to be harder to maintain our current mid table status.

I do have to say I wouldn't completely write off Martinez chances of getting us up the top end and I also don't think you can fluke a whole season. Statistically it's not looking good. Also the basis of 13/14 was 16 clean sheets in 38 games, if that was down to him, why hasn't he replicated it since? is the question, if it was, as has been suggested down to a Moyes drilled back 5 then maybe their was an element of luck/fluke about it.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Mate, we could have won the league and they would have been off. Besides, the mega payload we'll be receiving for them is largely down to Martinez, I fancy him to reinvest wisely.

What you say is all true but the team is based massively on these two. Replacing them is not a minor tweak, you need to find 30 goals a season from somewhere else and a centreback who can play out the back. We will then probably have another cycle in which to get the squad together and have a crack at success. If we faff around in the bottom half again then that team will disintegrate too.

 

[Khalekan]

Hi mate any reason why you left the rest of the post out? That hasn't done your argument any favours, you have basically tried to make it look like I was making a different point to the one I was making.

But I have seen that sort of behaviour before from other posters TBF. It must be catching

Also if you still think those with reservations in Martinez are just a minority I would disagree, I would not suggest they are anywhere near a majority but certainly not a few hundred disgruntled fans like you hope it is.

Ian......I ain't looking to engage with you in "argument".

I find your position ludicrous in the extreme and you appear to be the kind of chap who will never, ever acknowledge the other party might have made a sensible point if it runs counter you to own preconceived notions.

So I would never waste my time trying to debate with you.

All's I do is engage in a bit of banter with you.....have a bit of fun with you.

Your meltdown the night of the 1-1 "defeat" at West Ham was epic

So have a Happy New Year, pal......though I hope Everton spoil it for you on Sunday with a comprehensive victory over Spurs

 

[Prevenger17]

We're talking one season though. Not three to four. Have we not also moved forward with our own personnel?

I think we have moved forward, sure. From a value perspective, we could be looking at 80 million for Stones and Lukaku, probably more. That's the quality of player that's been developed under Martinez. It's been a disappointing run of results to be sure, it does have the whiff of a missed opportunity, but I'm willing to wait until the end of the season to take stock.

 

[Lanolin]

Right, but one look at the squads we're competing against now compared to the ones we had to play against 3 or 4 years ago should tell you that the game has changed. It might seem odd to talk of it as a different era, but it is. The playing field levelled almost as soon as clubs realized that they would have far more money to play with in the transfer window and that any PL club, regardless of standing, could snap up highly rated players from the continent. We've thrown away points in a season where we could really be pushing for top 4, and I understand peoples' frustrations in a way, but there's plenty of season left and time to get it right.

This argument makes no sense though, because we got the tv money too. If our squad was better to begin with, and every team was given the same amount of cash we were, there is absolutely no logical reason to suggest that other teams have inevitably caught us up.

And before anyone just comes back with a lazy comment about the board, just remind me how many of these nouveau riche clubs have splurged £28m on a single player.

 

[Brownie]

"Please remain calm and return to your seats"

 

[Dymak]

This argument makes no sense though, because we got the tv money too. If our squad was better to begin with, and every team was given the same amount of cash we were, there is absolutely no logical reason to suggest that other teams have inevitably caught us up.

And before anyone just comes back with a lazy comment about the board, just remind me how many of these nouveau riche clubs have splurged £28m on a single player.

Exactly. And people bizarrely conclude that we have somehow progressed under Martinez.

 

[Prevenger17]

you need to find 30 goals a season from somewhere else and a centreback who can play out the back.

But this is a breakout season for Rom, he's far exceeded his average this year and that's why I will cede that we could very well be in the middle of a massive missed opportunity. There's no way he should be able to score two goals at home and be on the losing side, but we only need look at the valuable asset we have on the other side of the pitch to find one of the reasons why it happened on the day. Stones had a howler, they'll happen. Rom won't have his shooting boots on a day that Stones will be an impassable rock. It's the hazards of a predominantly youthful team. We got this far without a 30 goal a season striker, we'll carry on.

 

[ilikecheese]

This argument makes no sense though, because we got the tv money too. If our squad was better to begin with, and every team was given the same amount of cash we were, there is absolutely no logical reason to suggest that other teams have inevitably caught us up.

And before anyone just comes back with a lazy comment about the board, just remind me how many of these nouveau riche clubs have splurged £28m on a single player.

Unless Distin, Howard, Osman, and a few others started to show their age.

 

[ianefc]

I think (hope) we're all in agreement that the current form is unacceptable. Of course you don't control anything, was just expressing a wish of mine. Easy to say all teams have injuries but I'd be curious to know how much weight you put behind Baines being out nearly the whole season and our captain being out for such a crucial period? Also on a side note thank goodness Barry has picked his game back up as if he was off form again this season things would be much more dire.

Thanks god Lukaku didn't get injured, although there are bigger issues to be solved one of the biggest shouts this summer was for a secondary striker to be purchased. We'd be staring down the barrel without Lukaku.

Honestly mate if the first part of this post was true I reckon you could shave 350 pages off of this thread. The amount of Goading and re creating posts to fit agendas that goes on, in the back of yet more poor results is something that inspires so many posts.

The last thing any right minded Evertonian wants to hear after our team has thrown away yet more points, after performing vastly superior in the 1st half compared to the 2nd is 'yeah but the football was scintillating'

 

[Dymak]

I think we have moved forward, sure. From a value perspective, we could be looking at 80 million for Stones and Lukaku, probably more. That's the quality of player that's been developed under Martinez. It's been a disappointing run of results to be sure, it does have the whiff of a missed opportunity, but I'm willing to wait until the end of the season to take stock.

I'm not sure the development of those two players is all down to Martinez, as if they would have failed to develop under the stewardship of someone else. But even if they are, it means Martinez has well over 80 million pounds of talent at his disposal, and yet we are regressing and failing to keep up with the likes of Stoke and Palace.

 

[Khalekan]

I think (hope) we're all in agreement that the current form is unacceptable. Of course you don't control anything, was just expressing a wish of mine. Easy to say all teams have injuries but I'd be curious to know how much weight you put behind Baines being out nearly the whole season and our captain being out for such a crucial period? Also on a side note thank goodness Barry has picked his game back up as if he was off form again this season things would be much more dire.

There is nowt wrong with the form, Venture.

It is the results.

We are playing quite brilliantly most the time.

Man. United were the opposite earlier in the season........they were in dreadful form but kept ekeing out victories somehow or other.

Then the results caught up with the form and they have gone into tailspin.

That is what tends to happen.....and I can see our results catching up with our form especially when our first choice, experienced defenders are back in full harness.

 

[Prevenger17]

Unless Distin, Howard, Osman, and a few others started to show their age.

Aye, all the players that people hold up as examples of why Martinez should be doing better are almost always players that were either brought in or developed by Martinez himself.

 

[riddick]

What you say is all true but the team is based massively on these two. Replacing them is not a minor tweak, you need to find 30 goals a season from somewhere else and a centreback who can play out the back. We will then probably have another cycle in which to get the squad together and have a crack at success. If we faff around in the bottom half again then that team will disintegrate too.

We need a CB who can defend first and foremost.

 

[Prevenger17]

Christ, I'm off to bed. I can't handle being quoted by more than 2 people at a time.