Roberto Martinez discussion

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Pacman said:
Your heads in the clouds if you think he's gonna magically sort out his defensive organisation, he couldn't do it at wigan and he's failing to get to grips with it here.

Like I said earlier it's simply not his strength, why don't you ask a west Brom fan if its worth them demanding Tony Pulis play tiki taka football and see the answer. You either accept Martinez for what he is (good attack play but defensive issues keeping you midtable) or you stick and look for someone else. For me it's increasingly obvious he'll never have us challenging for Europe when he can't have us doing so with Lukaku on fire, Chelsea and Utd in free fall, conceding 1.5 per game (relegated wigan with 1.8 goals per game) and no back to back wins in months.
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I don't think it'll magically get sorted but we haven't even had our first choice back four together the vast majority of the season. Look how frail city is defensively without kompany. Everyone bangs on about having "4 internationals" on our back line despite the fact stones and Galloway are still very young and mori is just coming to a new league and country. Hardly an established unit. I'm not saying all the blame can be pointed to injuries as we still sit off way too much. However having experience late in games can't be undervalued. The wigan comparisons are just lazy and tiresome, especially the relegation one. Wigans eventual relegation was inevitable. Look how far they've fallen since. Martinez isn't perfect but I think there's more positives in what he's trying to do here than negatives.
 

davek said:
I dont fear for RM to be fair mate. He's not going to be punished for creating a team like this. He'll rightly be given time to develop them. We are not a club that has a revolving managerial office door.

GK sorted: we're on our way. Even someone in the boardroom can see that.
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Well no. As I said before Kenwright is a charlatan but he does understand the need to give managers time.

I do worry though. As you can tell I really want Martinez to do well. I do worry in the eyes of the supporters that every game Howard cocks up in it begins to discredit him.

I think this side is a Southall and Watson short of really competing for winning things.
 
USABlue said:
I don't think it'll magically get sorted but we haven't even had our first choice back four together the vast majority of the season. Look how frail city is defensively without kompany. Everyone bangs on about having "4 internationals" on our back line despite the fact stones and Galloway are still very young and mori is just coming to a new league and country. Hardly an established unit. I'm not saying all the blame can be pointed to injuries as we still sit off way too much. However having experience late in games can't be undervalued. The wigan comparisons are just lazy and tiresome, especially the relegation one. Wigans eventual relegation was inevitable. Look how far they've fallen since. Martinez isn't perfect but I think there's more positives in what he's trying to do here than negatives.
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I just don't buy this Kendall MRKII that some fans are trying to feed people, he can build a good young side as much as he wants but if he can't get to grips with basic defending those said young players will leave and it's back to square one. It took people 11 years to work out that Moyes was never gonna push us on and it's a shame it's gonna probably take people 11 years to realise the same with Martinez. The only difference is under moyes we had a safety net of being the "best of the rest" for much of his tenure. Now you have Palace, Stoke, West Ham, Southampton and Leicester all emerging from that middle pack who can easily overtake us in the table and with it be more attractive to the top players.

You ask any opposition supporter are we underachieving and they will say yes.
In the past if you asked opppsition fans were we overachieving and people would have said yes.

That for me is key we are going backwards and too many fans are blinded to it because we play nice football for 45 minutes every game.
 
Pacman said:
Your heads in the clouds if you think he's gonna magically sort out his defensive organisation, he couldn't do it at wigan and he's failing to get to grips with it here.

Like I said earlier it's simply not his strength, why don't you ask a west Brom fan if its worth them demanding Tony Pulis play tiki taka football and see the answer. You either accept Martinez for what he is (good attack play but defensive issues keeping you midtable) or you twist and look for someone else. For me it's increasingly obvious he'll never have us challenging for Europe when he can't have us doing so with Lukaku on fire, Chelsea and Utd in free fall, conceding 1.5 per game (relegated wigan with 1.8 goals per game) and no back to back wins in months.
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But he already has had us challenging for Europe!
 
Are the backroom staff fit for purpose? If you had someone who has tasted success they would have the mentality me thinks. The fitness of players i.e mirallas and lennon both being rested should also be questioned
 

To me at the moment it seems that Roberto has this box of Lego called Everton FC. He can build a superb roof which attracts admiration but cannot build the walls to hold up said roof.
 
Seanjd said:
But he already has had us challenging for Europe!
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Rodgers was a whisker away from winning the title, Ranieri is currently got a poor side challenging for the title. Neither did or won't do it consistently.

Right now he's been here 2 and a 1/2 seasons and for the majority of his tenure we have been more 10/11th than 4/5th. Which again not good enough with this squad + Lukaku's current goal tally.
 
Not sure if it has been posted but phil mcnulty tweeted this yesterday :

Roberto Martinez, meanwhile, is in danger of turning Everton into an upmarket version of the side he produced at Wigan Athletic.
 
TheHumbleEgg said:
Mate, honestly, if you're happy to let him get to the summer without addressing the GK & general defending issues then he'll have given himself enough rope to swing by at that point anyway.

Honest answer on replacement...I dunno, really I don't. But we're not at that point, nowhere near as yet...but I genuinely feel if he doesn't start dealing with the seemingly open house policy on teams scoring against us then he's utterly screwed anyway. And his legacy will be all about the 'nearly', nothing more...
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I am just being a realist. We never do major business in January. My guess was last season Howard had a poor year and RM thought the team did in general and hoped he would turn it around this year. He hasn't and just confirmed that he is going downhill as befitting his age. Unfortunately, Martinez does not like to drop just on form and Howard is the most senior member of our back line without Jags. Howard also stood up for Martinez last year and I believe one of the ones that Martinez personally has in his inner circle. My concern is that Martinez still wants Howard next season. In hindsight we should have done more this past summer and being stuck with Howard will clearly cost us points, but teams don't sell their starting keeper in January. We are stuck with Howard this year. Hopefully Martinez acknowledges it is time to bring in someone who can step in right away but also be on the younger side to grow with our nucleus.
 

catcherintherye said:
Well no. As I said before Kenwright is a charlatan but he does understand the need to give managers time.

I do worry though. As you can tell I really want Martinez to do well. I do worry in the eyes of the supporters that every game Howard cocks up in it begins to discredit him.

I think this side is a Southall and Watson short of really competing for winning things.
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I fully agree with all that. We're not far off a very competitive team, but the defence needs discipline and organisation. The first act is to replace the GK with Robles. Minimum. Not ideal, but better. No doubt it'll take until summer 2016 to finally get Howard out and a decent first team GK in. By that time we'll also need to sort out a dominant CB too.

Martinez has time though. I'm pretty sure about that. As long as there's no repeat of last season's slide there's simply going to be no appetite to replace him. He's got five year deal that he'll see out at the very least.
 
skumar55 said:
Not sure if it has been posted but phil mcnulty tweeted this yesterday :

Roberto Martinez, meanwhile, is in danger of turning Everton into an upmarket version of the side he produced at Wigan Athletic.
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Yeah noticed that, hes normally such a little kiss arse as well.

Hes clearly bitter at being made to look a mug last time we had a takeover rumour and he said it was legit.
 

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