Roberto Martinez discussion

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catcherintherye said:
I am not sure it's about loyalty. Eggs said recently that I agree with, that Everton as a club wouldn't benefit from just sacking managers on a whim.

I never once called for Moyes to go (the only time I ever called for a manager to go was Smith After the Boro quarter-final). I don't think that makes me some super fan but it just means I generally accept the principle above, that continuity is important particularly for Everton.

In general though, a few people are going to have to look at whats happening here and also the Car Crash that is Manchester United (where they have got nowhere near the levels of performance in key indicators like the Champions league, despite spending hundreds of millions more) and re-evaluate the narrative around Moyes.

There is little doubt he overachieved in the league season in season out. I always thought the next manager would struggle to match his consistency. I think a few have chucked the baby out with the bath water regarding Moyes and any future analysis they now make isn't congruent. In spite of what people think Moyes was not holding back a squad and club that was capable of challenging to win leagues. He was eeking out consistent if uninspiring returns from a squad which on paper should be around where we are now, half way up.

Was he an arrogant swine about it? Yes. Did he ever fully appreciate the fans/club? Probably not. Did he rub people up the wrong way? Absolutely. Would he ever have built us into a side of winner? I highly doubt it.

However we are struggling to match his consistency for a reason, it was not as straightforward as it seems.
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The thing about Moyes is that he could have been here for 11 more seasons on top of the 11 he had and you KNOW for sure the level of football would have been embarrassingly poor and he'd have won nothing. He 'achieved' making Everton hard to beat. A completely uninspiring 'achievement' that only looks like a good thing if you've just come off the back of two or three last minute reversals.

There is no reappraisal of Moyes that puts him in a good light. He was a dullard manager without a clue how to get a team in a confident and winning frame of mind - a characteristic he's underlined in his two laughably cack handed attempts at management since he left Everton.
 

Weirdly enough we probably have the personnel to play the old somewhat negative moyes system much more effectively than we ever did under him. We have a top class striker and creativity in gerry and barkley.

I'm all for the attacking play, but with our resources do we not have enough spark to being able to play with a solid compact system. Maybe I'm miles off here, but I don't see need for a front 5 plus attacking FBs like we had yesterday.
 
davek said:
The thing about Moyes is that he could have been here for 11 more seasons on top of the 11 he had and you KNOW for sure the level of football would have been embarrassingly poor and he'd have won nothing. He 'achieved' making Everton hard to beat. A completely uninspiring 'achievement' that only looks like a good thing if you've just come off the back of two or three last minute reversals.

There is no reappraisal of Moyes that puts him in a good light. He was a dullard manager without a clue how to get a team in a confident and winning frame of mind - a characteristic he's underlined in his two laughably cack handed attempts at management since he left Everton.
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seems some people prefer consistent averageness than our current highs and lows, almost human nature to not want to be that risk taker...interesting
 
davek said:
The thing about Moyes is that he could have been here for 11 more seasons on top of the 11 he had and you KNOW for sure the level of football would have been embarrassingly poor and he'd have won nothing. He 'achieved' making Everton hard to beat. A completely uninspiring 'achievement' that only looks like a good thing if you've just come off the back of two or three last minute reversals.
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Sorry Dave but that's bollocks

We played some lovely football at times under Moyes. He just didn't have the confidence to do it every week. The home win over Southampton in his last season saw us play some beautiful stuff
 
GwladysBlue said:
Lowste, give it a rest jumping on my posts.

New owners generally come in and have their own plans for a club. The manager hardly ever survives.

When we have a manager who has been massively underachieving for a season and a half, that manager will be sacked.

The current owners have no ambition for the club and had to be forced by the fans to sack Smith.

Any other 'big' team would have sacked Martinez by now.

If you don't think it'll happen under a different board, then more fool you.
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If it is the Jordanian bloke I wouldn't disagree, simply because i expect he will be throwing millions at the club (i.e Chelsea and City). He could potentially go an get a Mourhinio or the likes, and the promise of unrestricted funds would maybe entice them. If this happened I think it is bye bye for RM, and I would not argue as this would be for the betterment of the Club. If it is the Americans I am not to sure, these fellas will be more cautious and will also look at the excellent progression of the young players and what the sell on values are. They will look at us as more of a business than a hobby.

As for the bigger teams sacking managers, it is fine sacking them but you have to have a replacement in the wings.
Liverpool played it perfect in getting Klopp, Chelsea have got Hiddink in as cover another great fit.
Our problem is whoever we get it is a gamble as sadly the top names don't even give us a second thought.

Takeover may change everything.....
 

neil999 said:
seems some people prefer consistent averageness than our current highs and lows, almost human nature to not want to be that risk taker...interesting
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It's quite true. However at the end of last season when we ground out 1-0 wins people did call it boring and scrappy.

Personally scoring 8 against Bournemouth Leicester and stoke and coming away with a point is just very frustrating. We go into our hardest run of the season having dropped 10 points
 
neil999 said:
seems some people prefer consistent averageness than our current highs and lows, almost human nature to not want to be that risk taker...interesting
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I would not call high scoring games with 0 point/1 point a high. I prefer 1-0 with 3 points in the bag. I understand without a trophy it's literally means nothing in football but this has been a case for 20 years.
 
neil999 said:
seems some people prefer consistent averageness than our current highs and lows, almost human nature to not want to be that risk taker...interesting
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I think that is basically the division here. I said last week we have a split in the fanbase between the Steady Eddies and the Nervous Nerys's, and those profiles generally fit into that schema. Some are stable and happy to bowl along in a regime that attempts to play open football, acknowledging and accepting it'll be erratic at times; some are the hide behind the back of the couch types who dont feel comfortable with open play and want a 451 set up and would readily accept a draw with 15 minutes to go.

It's, as you say, a difference in outlook that goes way beyond football.
 

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