Roberto Martinez discussion

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ianefc said:
Nope. I can't tell you what to think. If you can't subjectively look at the past 18 months since then it's pointless. We have won 11 or 12 games all calendar year to put that into context Villa have won 6 and Newcastle 7 and I wouldn't take one of their players.
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His tenure isn't just 18 months though is it Ian. Take his entire tenure into account yeah?
 

Saint Domingo said:
Predicting that he's not going anywhere is probably the safest prediction in football. So what if he isn't, does that mean he gets off without any critical observation of his under performance?

Ultimately our youth and inexperience (if you wish to see it this way) is Martinez's choice. Coleman has neither issue so there is no excuse for his rank form, Stones has had two and a half seasons now and is a full international, when does the 'inexperience' line wear thin? If he's not learning why is he in the first team? If the defence was crying out for experience why did Martinez go and buy a player with no prem experience in Mori? I don't think he's a bad player by the way. Equally why did he select Galloway over Baines or over Garbutt who is on loan.

My main point is people need to stop divorcing negative outcomes from the manager's decisions. If we have a young team, its because Martinez has tailored his transfer model that way, if we have a poor keeper its because Martinez keeps selecting him, Howard's 'individual errors' are Martinez's every time he keeps picking him. If we have an inexperienced defence that is the outcome of Martinez's selections and transfer policies. Otherwise the argument can be thrown the other way to say that Lukaku would score whoever he played for so Martinez doesn't deserve credit for that. That's illogical, the same way disassociating all the negative aspects of our team from Martinez is also illogical. He singularly owns al of the good and the bad.
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Fairly sure he's got you on ignore mate.
 

ijjysmith said:
Boss all this blaming the boss while some players get off Scott free.

Scott when capital S there. Not sure why. Well I know why. But I'm not sure if that saying has a capital S or not. Does it?
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Don't think the players are to blame. They're giving their all but are let down by a lack of organisation, and poor set up. Out of the players who do you think has played badly this season? Howard obviously but not many other names spring to mind.

It's all very worrying.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Predicting that he's not going anywhere is probably the safest prediction in football. So what if he isn't, does that mean he gets off without any critical observation of his under performance?

Ultimately our youth and inexperience (if you wish to see it this way) is Martinez's choice. Coleman has neither issue so there is no excuse for his rank form, Stones has had two and a half seasons now and is a full international, when does the 'inexperience' line wear thin? If he's not learning why is he in the first team? If the defence was crying out for experience why did Martinez go and buy a player with no prem experience in Mori? I don't think he's a bad player by the way. Equally why did he select Galloway over Baines or over Garbutt who is on loan.

My main point is people need to stop divorcing negative outcomes from the manager's decisions. If we have a young team, its because Martinez has tailored his transfer model that way, if we have a poor keeper its because Martinez keeps selecting him, Howard's 'individual errors' are Martinez's every time he keeps picking him. If we have an inexperienced defence that is the outcome of Martinez's selections and transfer policies. Otherwise the argument can be thrown the other way to say that Lukaku would score whoever he played for so Martinez doesn't deserve credit for that. That's illogical, the same way disassociating all the negative aspects of our team from Martinez is also illogical. He singularly owns al of the good and the bad.
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Please see my other post in response to dymak.
 
jal123 said:
I think it's the sort of pen where stones has made clattenburgs mind up by going down, getting the ball or not there's not need and you've made his mind up. What I mean is if it was the other way round we'd be absolutely fuming if it wasn't given.
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Sounds fair. I sit in the Park End, on the side of the goal where Stones went to ground and when Clattenburg gave the pen we all stod up and gave him dogs abuse shouting words which would get the swear filter working overtime, but then sat down and quietly said to each other "I reckon that was a pen". Even if it wasn't, then I can see why he gave it.
 

Tigger said:
What has the future value of players got to do with net spend?
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Because when people mention net spend they're referring to the manager not being backed, that's a fair point, but our players are better than the values we paid for them, for example someone could spend 30 million on Barkley, their net spend would be massively superior to ours in terms of backing but they'd have the same player we got for free.
 
dannyboy said:
Don't think the players are to blame. They're giving their all but are let down by a lack of organisation, and poor set up. Out of the players who do you think has played badly this season? Howard obviously but not many other names spring to mind.

It's all very worrying.
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The crazy thing about this forum is Stones is let off so easy here, yet he's not good defensively. Terrible in the air. Naive on the ground.

Does boss stuff, but also makes loads of errors.
 

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