Roberto Martinez discussion

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TBH I just started writing a list and I realised I was just spouting the same stuff that's been said by 100+ other posters. I don't think he's capable, their are too many worrying traits. I hope I'm proved wrong not for Martinez but for Everton and our fans, I say I hope I'm proved wrong because as has been correctly pointed out he is here for the long term, of that their is no doubt. The only way he would go was if their was a change of ownership and the form persisted.

Their are things that he could try. Getting the players fitter for one, too many games this season a few of our players seem to be struggling in the later stages of the game, with no EL excuse this season.

He could ease up on playing Kone and Howard, the former would be an easier decision than the later, I'm sure once MaCarthy is back Ckeverley will return to the left but Kone won't return to the right because of Deulofeu' form.

He could make subs before the momentum of the game gets too far away from us, I was at the Aston Villa game in 13/14 and in the first half we stunk the place out, we were atrocious and a goal behind, the only thing worse than our teams performance was Barkley's and he got hooked at HT Osman came on and we went on to win 2-1 and were much better in 2nd half. Osman also changed the away fixture that season TBF he was bought on at 0-0 and we went on to win 2-0. That was a big feature of that season, when was the last time he made a sub that completely turned the tide of a game in our favour? And that only adds to the frustration when people, including myself, say we have the best squad we have had, the options must be avaliable to him.

He could stop treating fans like idiots in the post game interviews, I know what he says to us after a bad result won't be what he says to the players, I'm also not expecting him to push any individual under a bus either, but like someone quoted Alan Ball the other day 'you can't kid Evertonians' he also said 'Once Everton has touched you nothing else is the same' just thought I'd throw that in there

Opinions on performances can by interpreted by individuals' mindsets when forming them, someone can say 'we were scintillating V Norwich' and someone could come right back at them and say 'but not in the 2nd half and you'll get nowhere by only playing for 45 in the PL' both opinions could be construed as being valid, but stats don't lie

  • 2 wins in 10
  • 6 wins in 90 minutes in 20 games this season
  • 17 wins V PL opposition in all comps since Leicester on opening day 14/15 (59 games)
  • 19 clean sheets in last 72 competitive games in all comps compared to 20 in his first 42
  • In the past 18 months we have lost 26 points from winning positions
  • Won 12 league games this calendar year from 36 games
  • Gained just 70 points from last 165 available
  • Has on form the second most in form striker in the league (statistically) we are 10th... The most inform striker (statistically) his team are top
These are a few stats and I'm sure someone will say that I can do anything with stats, but the ones above are all accurate.

I also think it's important to note that us losing to Leicester doesn't make me any more right or wrong than I was on Friday evening, it's a much bigger picture than that, the same way the ones who dismiss the past 18 months as being 'just fine' would therefore be hypocrites if they'd of told me, had we won yesterday, that it had done his proved Martinez' had us 'back on track'

He's a manager with no sustained time of being relatively successful in this league he had one season with us the rest he has spent underachieving, aside from winning the FA cup (which Im sure some will jump on me for) people will also say he didn't have the calibre of player to Keep Wigan in the league, I'd counter that by saying he has the talent at his disposal to achieve better stats than those listed above.

That said.....should he win us the League Cup he can do what he wants with Everton for the rest of the season, except relegate us.

I love your stats: a collection of numbers related to points or wins gained from one arbitrarily chosen point in the calendar to another arbitrarily chosen point.

Of course, the only stats that matter almost halfway through this season are A) how far off the European spots we are , and B) how well we've done in the only cup that's been up for grabs. The scores on the doors in that respect are: 6 points off a CL place and into the SF of the LC.

END
OF
STORY
 

What I am saying is, I'm not concerned about top four, I am more concerned with slipping into a relegation fight. We need a win quickly to make things feel better, but where that comes from I am not sure !!
 
What I am saying is, I'm not concerned about top four, I am more concerned with slipping into a relegation fight. We need a win quickly to make things feel better, but where that comes from I am not sure !!
Well, we play a rubbish team on Boxing Day. I'm realistically targeting that.
 
I think this is being said in a more 'we're still within touching distance of where we want to be' kind of way, rather than saying it's an achievement. The season is far from over. That's how I read it anyway.
Yeah, I know what you mean, and I agree that this season has been far from a disaster so far. It just seems to be popping up a lot recently in a 'why are you complaining' sense. To me, already being 6 points behind a position I believe is realistically achievable is a negative thing. If I said I thought there was a good chance we'd finish 17th most people would instantly shout me down, but how far ahead of that position are we? 6 points.
 

Yeah, I know what you mean, and I agree that this season has been far from a disaster so far. It just seems to be popping up a lot recently in a 'why are you complaining' sense. To me, already being 6 points behind a position I believe is realistically achievable is a negative thing. If I said I thought there was a good chance we'd finish 17th most people would instantly shout me down, but how far ahead of that position are we? 6 points.

This is it, it's absolutely not a disaster, which you would find it hard to believe going on what's been going on in this thread. Every right to complain about the results, they haven't been good enough, but a big difference this season is that, in my opinion, we are very close to getting it right. Last season we looked slow and struggled for ideas and struggled to break teams down and leaked far too many goals. This season we look like we can score 3/4 per game and we are conceding less. The balance isn't quite right but I don't think we're far off. It all boils down to if you're patient enough to see if we can get it right.
 
Yeah, I know what you mean, and I agree that this season has been far from a disaster so far. It just seems to be popping up a lot recently in a 'why are you complaining' sense. To me, already being 6 points behind a position I believe is realistically achievable is a negative thing. If I said I thought there was a good chance we'd finish 17th most people would instantly shout me down, but how far ahead of that position are we? 6 points.

Everybody has a right to complain at the way we've been dropping points lately, it's been abysmal. I'm annoyed with Martinez at the moment but I'm still behind him, and quite frankly have to be because his position is in absolutely no danger right now let's be honest.

So you need to look at the positives. 6 points is not a massive gap over the course of 21 games no matter what anybody says. We manage to hit a run of form (yes I know we haven't done that for a while) and that gap closes rather quickly.

3 of the teams above us have tough boxing day fixtures: Utd (Stoke away), Liverpool (Leicester home), Palace (Bournemouth away). It wouldn't surprise me if they all drop points. Newcastle away isn't exactly an easy fixture for us but it's one I can see us winning. Yet another potential opportunity for Everton, let's see if we take it.
 
This is it, it's absolutely not a disaster, which you would find it hard to believe going on what's been going on in this thread. Every right to complain about the results, they haven't been good enough, but a big difference this season is that, in my opinion, we are very close to getting it right. Last season we looked slow and struggled for ideas and struggled to break teams down and leaked far too many goals. This season we look like we can score 3/4 per game and we are conceding less. The balance isn't quite right but I don't think we're far off. It all boils down to if you're patient enough to see if we can get it right.
To be fair, i think very few people advocate sacking him now. I certainly don't - it wouldn't even be a consideration if I was the chairman.

I do think, however, that the end of the season is a fair point at which to judge his suitability to take us forward. Obviously that is going to be a gradual process, with people putting their opinions across as we get towards that point rather than sitting quietly until the end of the season and then making a snap judgement. It's a fan forum for people to give their opinions, and a lot of people are obviously of the opinion that the manager is performing poorly - that is being reflected in the posts as you would expect.
 
To be fair, i think very few people advocate sacking him now. I certainly don't - it wouldn't even be a consideration if I was the chairman.

I do think, however, that the end of the season is a fair point at which to judge his suitability to take us forward. Obviously that is going to be a gradual process, with people putting their opinions across as we get towards that point rather than sitting quietly until the end of the season and then making a snap judgement. It's a fan forum for people to give their opinions, and a lot of people are obviously of the opinion that the manager is performing poorly - that is being reflected in the posts as you would expect.

I wasn't talking about people calling for Martinez's head, more that the general mood of some people would make you think we've been losing game after game with a whimper which isn't the case.

Of course people are on here to air their views and opinions, I just think some people are being unreasonable/unrealistic. Each to their own and all that!
 

I love your stats: a collection of numbers related to points or wins gained from one arbitrarily chosen point in the calendar to another arbitrarily chosen point.

Of course, the only stats that matter almost halfway through this season are A) how far off the European spots we are , and B) how well we've done in the only cup that's been up for grabs. The scores on the doors in that respect are: 6 points off a CL place and into the SF of the LC.

END
OF
STORY
I'm not disagreeing with your overall point, but I don't understand people's obsession with disparaging Ian's stats. They're not arbitrary at all, they are highlighting our most recent form. If Lukaku doesn't score in his next 50 games for us, he will still have a reasonable record of 1 in 3. Would that stop us from criticising his record in that period? Absolutely not. I'm not sure why that should not be true of the manager.

If we win the next 10 in a row, I will happily use that as evidence that he has improved us. Using a fixed point in the past to start measuring from is a fairly standard way of analysing performance. Obviously you shouldn't completely ignore what has happened in the past, but it seems fair to use more recent form as an indicator of current levels.
 
Everybody has a right to complain at the way we've been dropping points lately, it's been abysmal. I'm annoyed with Martinez at the moment but I'm still behind him, and quite frankly have to be because his position is in absolutely no danger right now let's be honest.

So you need to look at the positives. 6 points is not a massive gap over the course of 21 games no matter what anybody says. We manage to hit a run of form (yes I know we haven't done that for a while) and that gap closes rather quickly.

3 of the teams above us have tough boxing day fixtures: Utd (Stoke away), Liverpool (Leicester home), Palace (Bournemouth away). It wouldn't surprise me if they all drop points. Newcastle away isn't exactly an easy fixture for us but it's one I can see us winning. Yet another potential opportunity for Everton, let's see if we take it.

Although this glass half full view is commendable , I don't think our squad is as strong as we would like to think it is and we will definitely need that in the next couple of months. Although it is clear RM has a preferred match day 12/13 he has not given the fringe players enough game time. I wonder sometimes why we have a squad
 
Certain players have been under-performing in recent weeks...
  • Arouna Kone.
  • John Stones.
  • Tom Cleverley.
  • Tim Howard.
  • Seamus Coleman (defensively)
Looking at that list, we could easily swap out three faces (Mirallas for Kone, Gibson for Cleverley and Robles for Joel)

But Martinez is known for sticking with his beliefs.
 
Certain players have been under-performing in recent weeks...
  • Arouna Kone.
  • John Stones.
  • Tom Cleverley.
  • Tim Howard.
  • Seamus Coleman (defensively)
Looking at that list, we could easily swap out three faces (Mirallas for Kone, Gibson for Cleverley and Robles for Joel)

But Martinez is known for sticking with his beliefs.

Cleverley has had 2 great games out of 3 since his return. He was only poor against Leicester. Agree with Kone and Howard being dropped though. Hopefully McCarthy makes it for Newcastle.
 
I'm not a Howard fan but I think pinning the Saturday loss on him only, is more than a bit unfair,our general defending was woeful.
He conceded the penalty that turned the game.

Had he not given Vardy a gift there, I think we stood a fair chance of going on to win as opposed to getting nothing.

It's game of fine margins at this level and he's now regularly making errors that lead directly to us dropping points.

I don't think was all down to him over the 90 minutes, but goals change games and made an error there that lead to one.
 

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