Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

I cannot speak toward your doom mongers/plotters conspiracy theory, but I will call out blind and dumb loyalty when I see it...and sad to say, you possess it in spades

Blind dumb loyalty is your way of describing consistency of viewpoint.

I'll leave it to you and others to change your views wildly with each passing game. I'll just stick calmly to a couple of season long objectives and see how near Martinez has this team getting to them.

Nothing blind or dumb about that. The reverse,m in fact.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

agreed his stubbornness to remove a player who is underperforming is going to cast a shadow over his time with us. Joel must be wondering what he has to do to get a game.

He has to be better than Howard, and he's clearly not.

Do you really think he'd choose the inferior goalkeeper through stubbornness?

 

[dannyboy]

TBH, I wouldn't see Baines for Galloway as a step up.
He's gotten his place back way too easily for me and if I was BG I'd be pretty pissed off about it.

Galloway is our best bet at LB. H gives us a better shape than the wandering Baines does.

You say that but towards the end of his stint he was looking lost. Galloway playing yesterday wouldn't have changed the result imo.

 

[davek]

one step back too take two forwards? I see the progression, we have to patient...just hope the fans can too

Fans are fans: one game we win "CL place up for grabs now lids"; one game we draw "we're stagnating lads"; one game we lose "we need a new manager, Martinez has had his chance".

plus ca change.

 

[deipnosophist]

I dont take any offence. You're clearly a person who reacts alarmingly to defeat and victory - hence your mood swings on here.

BTW, have you told Roberto yet that he wouldn't get past your HR team if in the future he finds himself applying for a job?

ROFL.

...speaking of ROFL
Your pre-match prediction :
Big win for us. 3-0.

• They will be taken seriously (half the success they've had is through opposition underestimating them)
• We've got the sort of mobile defence that will snuff out their threat on the break
• They're missing two of their five ever-presents - Drinkwater and Huth. Drinkwater, in particular, will be a massive miss as he's the pivot of that side from defence to attack
• They're really not that good. The defence looks suspect, and with Huth absent it'll only get more flakey.
• We are VERY tough to beat, as the form guide will tell you.
• We are in the middle of a run of form that creates lots of chances and sooner or later they'll again (S'land/Villa) end up being taken and burying some team.

We'll win this for sure. The only question is by how much. Leicester are coming down to earth with a massive bump tomorrow.

lol lol lol

 

[neil999]

Fans are fans: one game we win "CL place up for grabs now lids"; one game we draw "we're stagnating lads"; one game we lose "we need a new manager, Martinez has had his chance".

plus ca change.

its lucky we are so wise mate

 

[Dymak]

To be fair to Martinez, I don't think this current team and squad is anywhere near as good as people are making it out to be. The midfield is poor and the defence is dodgy.

 

[bluestevon]

No question about the GK. It stands out like a sore thumb. He has to go.

On the building process issue though: we have to come to some sort of acknowledgment that if you're in the process of moving over to a certain type of play with a clutch of young players with the emphasis on attack, then you're going to see defensive frailty. That's part and parcel of being brave and deciding to be more adventurous. The defence has to be sorted out, certainly. But you could see with the move for Dann last summer that he wanted more character in the defence. I expect him to move decisively ion both CB position and GK position in the summer.

Thing is mate the defensive frailty has been there this season and last now, last season we blamed it on Distin going off the cliff and Alcaraz playing in some games - even though Martinez bought him as a supposed experienced old head at the back, this season we are blaming a player settling in and disruption along the back 4 combined with young players having to play because of that.

One that spans both seasons is us blaming Howard for being simply a poor keeper

At a certain point we have to be unbiased and realistic and say that Martinez CAN judge a good defensive player - but also that he doesn't organise a defence well, christ we play two defensive midfielders, one of whom is pretty highly rated in McCarthy and the other who has a vast amount of experience at the very top level in Barry, we have a top class right back, we have one of England and the leagues best left backs, we have two centre backs who play for England and one who plays for Argentina, yet defensively we look an absolute shambles and likely to concede to any team we play no matter the quality of them.

Some or indeed a large part of that HAS to be rested on Martinez, whilst we have a very relaxed and open way we approach attacking in games which excites, we seem to have the attitude defensively that we should not close down, not get tight or press or make it hard for the opposition to play, utter and complete naivety from a manager who has been in this league for a long time now.

He needs to take off his rose tinted 'beautiful game' glasses and start to realise that as much as the game is about entertaining the fans it is also about giving the fans results even if that means getting ugly at times. you stated a whilst back that no team would relish facing us - i think the opposite - every team will look forward to facing us as they know that they will be allowed to play there game and will get chances throughout against us, and one thing as a team you shouldn't strive for is to be a team others like to play against

 

[davek]

You say that but towards the end of his stint he was looking lost. Galloway playing yesterday wouldn't have changed the result imo.

Baines has done nothing in two games to suggest it was the right move. I'm disappointed RM allowed Baines back in without earning his place.

 

[orly]

Baines has done nothing in two games to suggest it was the right move. I'm disappointed RM allowed Baines back in without earning his place.

Unfortunately, he has also done this with Cleverly and Howard.

Would like to see Galloway come in for Funes Mori.

 

[deipnosophist]

Blind dumb loyalty is your way of describing consistency of viewpoint.

I'll leave it to you and others to change your views wildly with each passing game. I'll just stick calmly to a couple of season long objectives and see how near Martinez has this team getting to them.

Nothing blind or dumb about that. The reverse,m in fact.

...and when does "each passing game" become a season? You're pushing on a string mate.

 

[bluestevon]

In Martinez' defence, I don't think this current team and squad is anywhere near as good as people are making it out to be. The midfield is poor and the defence is dodgy.

As i just stated mate, Coleman and Baines regarded as two of the best fb's in england right now, jagielka and mori two internationals for major teams, stones - tipped as a future England international captain, McCarthy regarded as a very good central mid, barry regarded as being past his best but still a high calibre central midfielder.

tell you right now that Coleman, Baines, Stones, Jagielka, McCarthy would be happily snapped up by nearly every team in this league if they had the chance, Barry, Mori would be taken by at least 10-14 teams as well.

If the midfield is poor and the defence dodgy and we break down and realise that the individual players aren't either, then it comes down to how they are organised and the tactics we use

 

[davek]

Thing is mate the defensive frailty has been there this season and last now, last season we blamed it on Distin going off the cliff and Alcaraz playing in some games - even though Martinez bought him as a supposed experienced old head at the back, this season we are blaming a player settling in and disruption along the back 4 combined with young players having to play because of that.

One that spans both seasons is us blaming Howard for being simply a poor keeper

At a certain point we have to be unbiased and realistic and say that Martinez CAN judge a good defensive player - but also that he doesn't organise a defence well, christ we play two defensive midfielders, one of whom is pretty highly rated in McCarthy and the other who has a vast amount of experience at the very top level in Barry, we have a top class right back, we have one of England and the leagues best left backs, we have two centre backs who play for England and one who plays for Argentina, yet defensively we look an absolute shambles and likely to concede to any team we play no matter the quality of them.

Some or indeed a large part of that HAS to be rested on Martinez, whilst we have a very relaxed and open way we approach attacking in games which excites, we seem to have the attitude defensively that we should not close down, not get tight or press or make it hard for the opposition to play, utter and complete naivety from a manager who has been in this league for a long time now.

He needs to take off his rose tinted 'beautiful game' glasses and start to realise that as much as the game is about entertaining the fans it is also about giving the fans results even if that means getting ugly at times. you stated a whilst back that no team would relish facing us - i think the opposite - every team will look forward to facing us as they know that they will be allowed to play there game and will get chances throughout against us, and one thing as a team you shouldn't strive for is to be a team others like to play against

I cant argue with much of that, so I wont bother. You're spot on. The maddening thing is that in that first season we were pretty frugal in defence. It worked. Now some belter is going to come along and seize on that statement and say "well it was Moyes' coaching still in them". But you know as well as I do that Martinez tore up the play book in that first season completely, so that theory holds no water.

I really do think it's down to personnel for the most part. With Butland or similar in between those posts we wouldn't be having this conversation. No question in my mind.

 

[Toffeelover]

To be fair to Martinez, I don't think this current team and squad is anywhere near as good as people are making it out to be. The midfield is poor and the defence is dodgy.

Who should take responsibilty for the shortcomings you suggest?

 

[Hangleton]

Problem is, without McCarthy, we don't get many tackles in - we don't put other teams under pressure when they have the ball. Add to that a crap keeper and wanting to take risks at the back means we are easy to score against.