Roberto Martinez discussion

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banno said:
What is bizarre about building a structure and team for the long haul. Do you want a quick fix manager? Who will or can provide a quick fix manager with the money to make that possible.
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To play devils advocate though mate, what's the point of building for the long term whilst completely ignoring the here and now, you need a balance to it, are Howard and Kone for example building for the future or actually improving the here and now?

The best managers build for the future whilst addressing the here and now even if it's only a 'quick fix' - we turn down for example 8m for Naismith whilst bidding 15m for Yarmolenko, whilst leaving two glaring holes in the current team.

Martinez wants the safety net of having these veteran players around the squad who simply aren't good enough, meanwhile he has the true talent of the team in a group of 21-22 year olds, we needed to add the 'Schmeichel, Keane, Cantona' type to the young squad even if it meant letting a few of the squad players go - Naismith and Mirallas, instead we have tried to make do with sub standard players and then wonder why we aren't progressing
 

davek said:
...and 6 off the CL spots.
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Your pre-match prediction :
Big win for us. 3-0.

  • They will be taken seriously (half the success they've had is through opposition underestimating them)
  • We've got the sort of mobile defence that will snuff out their threat on the break
  • They're missing two of their five ever-presents - Drinkwater and Huth. Drinkwater, in particular, will be a massive miss as he's the pivot of that side from defence to attack
  • They're really not that good. The defence looks suspect, and with Huth absent it'll only get more flakey.
  • We are VERY tough to beat, as the form guide will tell you.
  • We are in the middle of a run of form that creates lots of chances and sooner or later they'll again (S'land/Villa) end up being taken and burying some team.
We'll win this for sure. The only question is by how much. Leicester are coming down to earth with a massive bump tomorrow.

No offence mate, but after your writing that tripe, I'd rather listen to a 1000 tone deaf pigs squealing the back catalogue of One Direction, than hear any more of your views on football.*

*citation to @bluemangroup
 
bluestevon said:
To play devils advocate though mate, what's the point of building for the long term whilst completely ignoring the here and now, you need a balance to it, are Howard and Kone for example building for the future or actually improving the here and now?

The best managers build for the future whilst addressing the here and now even if it's only a 'quick fix' - we turn down for example 8m for Naismith whilst bidding 15m for Yarmolenko, whilst leaving two glaring holes in the current team.

Martinez wants the safety net of having these veteran players around the squad who simply aren't good enough, meanwhile he has the true talent of the team in a group of 21-22 year olds, we needed to add the 'Schmeichel, Keane, Cantona' type to the young squad even if it meant letting a few of the squad players go - Naismith and Mirallas, instead we have tried to make do with sub standard players and then wonder why we aren't progressing
Click to expand...
No question about the GK. It stands out like a sore thumb. He has to go.

On the building process issue though: we have to come to some sort of acknowledgment that if you're in the process of moving over to a certain type of play with a clutch of young players with the emphasis on attack, then you're going to see defensive frailty. That's part and parcel of being brave and deciding to be more adventurous. The defence has to be sorted out, certainly. But you could see with the move for Dann last summer that he wanted more character in the defence. I expect him to move decisively on both CB position and GK position in the summer.
 
deipnosophist said:
Your pre-match prediction :
Big win for us. 3-0.

  • They will be taken seriously (half the success they've had is through opposition underestimating them)
  • We've got the sort of mobile defence that will snuff out their threat on the break
  • They're missing two of their five ever-presents - Drinkwater and Huth. Drinkwater, in particular, will be a massive miss as he's the pivot of that side from defence to attack
  • They're really not that good. The defence looks suspect, and with Huth absent it'll only get more flakey.
  • We are VERY tough to beat, as the form guide will tell you.
  • We are in the middle of a run of form that creates lots of chances and sooner or later they'll again (S'land/Villa) end up being taken and burying some team.
We'll win this for sure. The only question is by how much. Leicester are coming down to earth with a massive bump tomorrow.

No offence mate, but after your writing that tripe, I'd rather listen to a 1000 tone deaf pigs squealing the back catalogue of One Direction, than hear any more of your views on football.*

*citation to @bluemangroup
Click to expand...
I dont take any offence. You're clearly a person who reacts alarmingly to defeat and victory - hence your mood swings on here.

BTW, have you told Roberto yet that he wouldn't get past your HR team if in the future he finds himself applying for a job?

ROFL.
 

deipnosophist said:
Your pre-match prediction :
Big win for us. 3-0.

  • They will be taken seriously (half the success they've had is through opposition underestimating them)
  • We've got the sort of mobile defence that will snuff out their threat on the break
  • They're missing two of their five ever-presents - Drinkwater and Huth. Drinkwater, in particular, will be a massive miss as he's the pivot of that side from defence to attack
  • They're really not that good. The defence looks suspect, and with Huth absent it'll only get more flakey.
  • We are VERY tough to beat, as the form guide will tell you.
  • We are in the middle of a run of form that creates lots of chances and sooner or later they'll again (S'land/Villa) end up being taken and burying some team.
We'll win this for sure. The only question is by how much. Leicester are coming down to earth with a massive bump tomorrow.

No offence mate, but after your writing that tripe, I'd rather listen to a 1000 tone deaf pigs squealing the back catalogue of One Direction, than hear any more of your views on football.*

*citation to @bluemangroup
Click to expand...

To be honest prior to yesterday's game and in fact after about 10 mins into the action yesterday I too felt supremely confident and thought we'd win comfortably. Unfortunately the penny dropped for me after the third yesterday that this squad is flawed by a sloppy defense and unforced errors.
 
The thing ive been most annoyed about is his reluctance to change it up. We have won 1 of our last 6 games and he's used the same XI in all of these games (bar Baines for Galloway and Clev for McCarthy).
 
bluestevon said:
To play devils advocate though mate, what's the point of building for the long term whilst completely ignoring the here and now, you need a balance to it, are Howard and Kone for example building for the future or actually improving the here and now?

The best managers build for the future whilst addressing the here and now even if it's only a 'quick fix' - we turn down for example 8m for Naismith whilst bidding 15m for Yarmolenko, whilst leaving two glaring holes in the current team.

Martinez wants the safety net of having these veteran players around the squad who simply aren't good enough, meanwhile he has the true talent of the team in a group of 21-22 year olds, we needed to add the 'Schmeichel, Keane, Cantona' type to the young squad even if it meant letting a few of the squad players go - Naismith and Mirallas, instead we have tried to make do with sub standard players and then wonder why we aren't progressing
Click to expand...

I don't think he is ignoring the here and now. He is building slowly but as fast as resources allow. He failed to get Yarmolenko which was a great shame but felt he couldn't diminish the squad without have a better replacement coming in. He is not in a position to buy 4 - 5 quality players per season. I wish he was. If we could get Yarmolenko in Jan then I am sure he would and would balance the books with a sale of Naismith or Mirallas or both. The older squad players are not good enough but he will be looking at having a squad rather than outing them for just 1 or 2 replacements that would lessen the numbers in the squad. He has kept his word of making the squad stronger each window but it can only be done as quick as availability of cash.
 
I'd be amazed if we get through in the League Cup. The way we defend City are likely to put 3 past us and put the tie beyond us in one game.

As I said earlier it shouldn't be an absolute given that he leads us into next season. Yes it's good to standby your manager for continuity but not when there's little sign of progress on the pitch. Over the next few months he's got to show he can come up with something different to win games. Right now it just looks like he's sending the players out there with no game plan adapted to the opposition.
 

davek said:
I'm not saying it will happen. I'm pointing out that there's another side of the coin...not that the doom mongers want to see it, they're too busy staring into the abyss screaming.
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I cannot speak toward your doom mongers/plotters conspiracy theory, but I will call out blind and dumb loyalty when I see it...and sad to say, you possess it in spades
 
LocalNative said:
The thing ive been most annoyed about is his reluctance to change it up. We have won 1 of our last 6 games and he's used the same XI in all of these games (bar Baines for Galloway and Clev for McCarthy).
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TBH, I wouldn't see Baines for Galloway as a step up.
He's gotten his place back way too easily for me and if I was BG I'd be pretty pissed off about it.

Galloway is our best bet at LB. H gives us a better shape than the wandering Baines does.
 
davek said:
No question about the GK. It stands out like a sore thumb. He has to go.

On the building process issue though: we have to come to some sort of acknowledgment that if you're in the process of moving over to a certain type of play with a clutch of young players with the emphasis on attack, then you're going to see defensive frailty. That's part and parcel of being brave and deciding to be more adventurous. The defence has to be sorted out, certainly. But you could see with the move for Dann last summer that he wanted more character in the defence. I expect him to move decisively on both CB position and GK position in the summer.
Click to expand...

one step back too take two forwards? I see the progression, we have to patient...just hope the fans can too
 

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