Roberto Martinez discussion

diggerdestroyer · December 19, 2015

Aar_the_Toffees said:
I'm getting desperate to find replacements too. But I know that very soon we will start getting results that fit our performances. The assault on the top 4 usually started after the halfway point with Moyes, and what's to say this won't be the case with Martinez.

Tim howard

kithnou · December 19, 2015

The Esk said:
When you evaluate any manager in any business one of the key considerations is the results created from the resources (funding, personnel and opportunity) available. A very good manager will generate results in excess of the expectation of the resources (and competition) available to him. If you find someone in business who consistently produces results beyond expectations then you cling onto them, you never want to lose them to a competitor.

With Martinez I feel we have someone who is in danger of producing under-achieving results relative to resources. I think he has to work very hard to maximise the results from the opportunities he currently has both in the cup and league, otherwise at the end of his third term even our Board may have to question his effectiveness. Certainly new owners, should they arrive will do so.

Let's hope we get to find out...

deipnosophist · December 19, 2015

The Esk said:
When you evaluate any manager in any business one of the key considerations is the results created from the resources (funding, personnel and opportunity) available. A very good manager will generate results in excess of the expectation of the resources (and competition) available to him. If you find someone in business who consistently produces results beyond expectations then you cling onto them, you never want to lose them to a competitor.

With Martinez I feel we have someone who is in danger of producing under-achieving results relative to resources. I think he has to work very hard to maximise the results from the opportunities he currently has both in the cup and league, otherwise at the end of his third term even our Board may have to question his effectiveness. Certainly new owners, should they arrive will do so.

You are couching your thoughts in diplomatic prose here. I have let similar usual (pablum?) guard down tonight and have said it as I see it. The resources Martinez has at his disposal, here and now, are quite substantial. We are failing on a level I would not accept as a director of a company with similar resource availing. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Dithering Dougie · December 20, 2015

The Esk said:
When you evaluate any manager in any business one of the key considerations is the results created from the resources (funding, personnel and opportunity) available. A very good manager will generate results in excess of the expectation of the resources (and competition) available to him. If you find someone in business who consistently produces results beyond expectations then you cling onto them, you never want to lose them to a competitor.

With Martinez I feel we have someone who is in danger of producing under-achieving results relative to resources. I think he has to work very hard to maximise the results from the opportunities he currently has both in the cup and league, otherwise at the end of his third term even our Board may have to question his effectiveness. Certainly new owners, should they arrive will do so.

Sounds like we really messed up letting Moyes go then Esk.

Greek Fisherman · December 20, 2015

davek said:
There's some people making a holy show of themselves over this result.

I cant wait until after we get the points against Newcastle. The vaults are bulging as it is.

The vault??? Should I start?

Recall a comment you made about the next thumping we were going to hand out. "Norwich, I'm looking at you"

Stubborn and clueless.

kithnou · December 20, 2015

Dithering Dougie said:
Sounds like we really messed up letting Moyes go then Esk.

I would hope he wasn't going there to be fair to him?

PeterEFC · December 20, 2015

Rooney and a consortium to buy everton. Laugh now but you will see soon

The Esk · December 20, 2015

Dithering Dougie said:
Sounds like we really messed up letting Moyes go then Esk.

Not at all. Martinez to his credit has accumulated far superior playing resources than Moyes could ever hope to do, or did. However Moyes tended to get the most out of average to less than average players, Martinez unless he proves otherwise, may be charged with getting less out of vastly superior players.

Number_25 · December 20, 2015

It's amazing how everyone is turning against our manager.

We're not a sacking club. We're not a kneejerk reaction club.

We're better than this.

Dithering Dougie · December 20, 2015

The Esk said:
Not at all. Martinez to his credit has accumulated far superior playing resources than Moyes could ever hope to do, or did. However Moyes tended to get the most out of average to less than average players, Martinez unless he proves otherwise, may be charged with getting less out of vastly superior players.

Martinez has been given vastly more backing though hasn't he.

And your last sentence is surely implying Martinez is getting an easier ride than Moyes even though he's had more backing?

Cork Evertonian · December 20, 2015

First we were told that the opening fixtures were too hard.They said we would be up near the top by christmas after the next run of fixtures.We keep hearing about this revolution.Hmm an 11th place finish last season on 47 points how revolutionary.Just about scraping a place at in the top 10 at christmas time how revolutionary.But we were unlucky here and we were unlucky there we hear them say.We should have won this.We should have won that.Well that's the problem there's too much excuses and too much could haves and should haves for my liking under this regime.But we hammered Villa and Sunderland they say.Yeah were good against the teams with no backbone about themselves but when we play anyside with a bit of spirit and fight about themselves we crumble.Credit to Martinez for the league cup run but the report card at christmas for our league performances is as far as im concerned a massive must do better.This is Everton football club we want performances and results to match not a load of weasel words and excuses.

Dexter · December 20, 2015

It's blatently obvious that Martinez can get a team to play some occasional good football and equally obvious that he is actually a bad manager, he has proved this in his premiership career, he hasn't learned anything since his Wigan days, he is still exactly the same

The Esk · December 20, 2015

Dithering Dougie said:
Martinez has been given vastly more backing though hasn't he.

And your last sentence is surely implying Martinez is getting an easier ride than Moyes even though he's had more backing?

The fact that Martinez has more resources available to him means the expectations are higher. Moyes was given an easy ride until the Chelsea Cup Final in my opinion. Having raised expectations and then failing to deliver it got progressively more difficult for Moyes. The same might now be happening to Martinez. Realistic expectations have risen substantially, so the pressure to produce is greater, and the consequences of failure are greater also.

orly · December 20, 2015

PeterEFC said:
Rooney and a consortium to buy everton. Laugh now but you will see soon

Hopefully he buys himself to us too

mythbuster · December 20, 2015

Dithering Dougie said:
Martinez has been given vastly more backing though hasn't he.

And your last sentence is surely implying Martinez is getting an easier ride than Moyes even though he's had more backing?

He has, but everybody elses spending power has increased too. In terms of the pecking order (in a financial sense) we're still about at the level we were under Moyes.

You know full well there's been no investment from the board, so the money we've had available has basically been available to all the other clubs.

According to my rough calculations, he's spent £10/11 million net per season so far. Hardly the stuff to give Citeh nightmares.