Tim Howard

[SpurtingLesbian]

He costing us points though any goalkeeper one mistake and when we were so unlucky last night it hurts even more, if we had won 3 or 4 - 1
as it may have been I would still be worrying its a goal again conceded from a corner with tim letting the header in straight down the middle of his goal!

he SOMETIMES cost us points, correct, but not every goal conceded is the Goalkeepers fault.
I have already said that he does need replacing as a priority and I don't think replacing him with Joel will do anything other than pipe the crowd down a bit.
We can't replace him until the window opens, and I'd be fairly surprised if we can find anyone suitable and getable in a Jan window so what do we do? Make Tim worse with constant abuse even when he does something right? or watch Joel make different mistakes for a while? It's not really a great choice is it. Watching different mistake might make it a bit less predictable and watchable but at the end of the day we won't get any more points and Joel is less used to the abuse. Roll a dice, take a chance on one or the other, there are no right answers. Well.. not until we get an new number one.

Right that's my shift of Howard appeasing done, back to you @Dithering Dougie

 

[Joey66]

he SOMETIMES cost us points, correct, but not every goal conceded is the Goalkeepers fault.
I have already said that he does need replacing as a priority and I don't think replacing him with Joel will do anything other than pipe the crowd down a bit.
We can't replace him until the window opens, and I'd be fairly surprised if we can find anyone suitable and getable in a Jan window so what do we do? Make Tim worse with constant abuse even when he does something right? or watch Joel make different mistakes for a while? It's not really a great choice is it. Watching different mistake might make it a bit less predictable and watchable but at the end of the day we won't get any more points and Joel is less used to the abuse. Roll a dice, take a chance on one or the other, there are no right answers. Well.. not until we get an new number one.

Right that's my shift of Howard appeasing done, back to you @Dithering Dougie

From the John Lennon song "Alls I am saying is give Joel Robles a chance"
Its not too much to ask!

 

[Joey66]

he SOMETIMES cost us points, correct, but not every goal conceded is the Goalkeepers fault.
I have already said that he does need replacing as a priority and I don't think replacing him with Joel will do anything other than pipe the crowd down a bit.
We can't replace him until the window opens, and I'd be fairly surprised if we can find anyone suitable and getable in a Jan window so what do we do? Make Tim worse with constant abuse even when he does something right? or watch Joel make different mistakes for a while? It's not really a great choice is it. Watching different mistake might make it a bit less predictable and watchable but at the end of the day we won't get any more points and Joel is less used to the abuse. Roll a dice, take a chance on one or the other, there are no right answers. Well.. not until we get an new number one.

Right that's my shift of Howard appeasing done, back to you @Dithering Dougie

Sometime is too many times!

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

This debate is going round in circles.

The bottom line is, that despite Howard being a long term servant of the club, who's been a fine keeper for us over the years, he's now well on the downslope and regularly conceding soft goals which is quite simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH for a side that has genuine ambitions of top 6 and beyond.

He's the current weakest link in that side and we desperately need an upgrade. What I don't like is the fact that his place in the side doesn't even seem to be up for discussion by Martinez. His form should have dictated a benching by now, Robles deserves his chance.

 

[joey_macmo]

You're American, aren't you?

Anyway - I disagree.

"Only Pantilimon has made more saves", Devil is in the detail, that's because Pantilimon has more saves to deal with - and Howard has had more efforts at him than most.

It's the save rate you look at, and Howard is poor.

Thousands recently voted in our polls on whether Howard should be dropped, 90% said yes.

Stats, stats and more stats. None are needed like, everyone can see he's not been good enough for a long time. We need better.

can we turn all that American stuff in, especially from the forum account fgs.

Stats place his save ratio in the top 7 in the league, when coupled with the 2nd most saves in the league its actually a decent reflection on him.

 

[Joey66]

This debate is going round in circles.

The bottom line is, that despite Howard being a long term servant of the club, who's been a fine keeper for us over the years, he's now well on the downslope and regularly conceding soft goals which is quite simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH for a side that has genuine ambitions of top 6 and beyond.

He's the current weakest link in that side and we desperately need an upgrade. What I don't like is the fact that his place in the side doesn't even seem to be up for discussion by Martinez. His form should have dictated a benching by now, Robles deserves his chance.

Spot on !

 

[Bluetintedspecs]

The fact you call everyone that doesn't agree with you 'Howard apologists' speaks volumes.
He's not as bad as you are so desperate to make out, he's also not the best keeper in the league by a long way. He is however the best keeper we've got and eroding his confidence + enthusiasm to perform better by booing, demanding he be replaced gets us nowhere.
Bobby knows he needs replacing, and that Joel isn't the answer (or else he'd be in the first team), it's just a case of finding a keeper that's good enough and wants to come here. I doubt it will happen in January (unless it's a loan), but I'd be very surprised if it isn't a priority for next Summer.

Don't see why you'd take exception to "Howard apologists". I could have said blinkered bells. As for the rest of your post, you're basically agreeing with mine, i.e. you agree he needs replacing as a matter of priority.

 

[Bluetintedspecs]

can we turn all that American stuff in, especially from the forum account fgs.

Stats place his save ratio in the top 7 in the league, when coupled with the 2nd most saves in the league its actually a decent reflection on him.

You need to stop clinging to stats and just use your eyes, but take the blinkers off first.

 

[LocalNative]

So you're saying players should be absolved of any criticism, even when it's deserved?

Noted

Not at all. I've been one to criticise him in the past, but criticising his performance last night is completely unwarranted.

 

[Joey66]

Not at all. I've been one to criticise him in the past, but criticising his performance last night is completely unwarranted.

Talk us through his positioning for their goal then - look if that header had flew into the top corner fair dos , but please watch it again it goes down the middle of the goal , and he does not even dive - he is 36 years old and its showing!

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

Don't see why you'd take exception to "Howard apologists". I could have said blinkered bells. As for the rest of your post, you're basically agreeing with mine, i.e. you agree he needs replacing as a matter of priority.

The point is, you seem to think that the "Howard apologists" don't also think he should be replaced. I don't actually see anyone saying we should keep him beyond the first opportunity to get an upgrade.
The problem is I don't think that Joel is any sort of improvement. His few appearances this season in the Cup have been fine, good even, but no better than Howard. It also seems to be forgotten that while Tim was injured last season, after the first few games of Joel in goal (when he was let off all sorts of thing by the Interweb hordes because he was young and inexperienced), we saw he wasn't actually any better.
Some people are locked into seeing only the worst in Tim and the best in Joel and nothing either of them do changes that.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

no, probably just that players should be absolved of major criticism, when it's not deserved.

He's not been terrible EVERY time he's been criticised. People are a bit too quick to ignore the facts before they weigh in with the comedy over reactions.

I can only speak for myself mate, but this has been a long time coming for me

You can go back and see my posts from a year or two ago and I was generally supportive of Howard and willing to think the best

It's just gone too far for me now

My mind was made up even before last night. The goal just stands as another example

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

I can only speak for myself mate, but this has been a long time coming for me
You can go back and see my posts from a year or two ago and I was generally supportive of Howard and willing to think the best
It's just gone too far for me now
My mind was made up even before last night. The goal just stands as another example

fair enough, and in time everyone one will agree with you. It's just that for the moment I don't see we have any better options until we get a new keeper in (only different, currently equally not great options).

 

[joey_macmo]

You need to stop clinging to stats and just use your eyes, but take the blinkers off first.

It was in response to someone using stats, or did you pull them up as well?

 

[Nobby Nobbs]

Its his job to move the big Gallot and position himself best to make a save not let the ball fly in down the centre of his goal! Fuming I was as I just knew its a corner and TH would bottle it!

Yes it is his job to move him but the striker is not politely going to move out of the way just for our Tim, plus the fact that it wasn't only Wickham who he has to go through it's the defender marking, the way people talk you would think it was easy to come through two players, mate try moving a 15yr old kid who doesn't want to move never mind two 6' plus football player's Wickham done a job on Howard so fair play to him.