Relegation Fight 2014/2015

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TheHumbleEgg said:
DAVEK - can I ask you something mate, if yer don't mind...

You mention showing the manager 'loyalty'/'giving him time etc'...and I'm with you on that. Or at least I was until VERY recently...

But at what point do you draw the line though, as a supporter....not of the club but as a supporter of the manager because having put an eye over all I can find of his interviews of late, well, the one over-riding thing (mantra) to come out of them is his unwillingness to change anything, he's basically saying this outright, yes? 'We play this way, end of, kid' etc.... He's saying, dress it up however yer like, that we will continue to play to this formula/system yet, clearly, it's just not snappin' at the moment is it? (or all season?) And that leads to questions in itself...

So, if there's nothing wrong with the formula, as BOBSY suggests, then what's the problem? Players? Well, on paper we have one of the best squads we've had for years, most agree on that, and there's been money to spend, again, ace also....and there has been loyalty shown, lots of, but - from my own point of view at least - if you're loyal to something/someone who is unwilling to change despite change being what's needed then there comes a point whence, quite naturally, your support just wanes...

I like him. I wanted it to be SO special. And it is, because we've become the most predictable team in the PL, by a long way. FABULOUS.
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But that argument only stands if our form of late has been exceptionally bad and things aren't working. It's not like that though is it? Last 8 games we've played we won 3, drew 3 and lost two; scored 10 and conceded 7. The game against Chelsea lost was a tough one and could/should have offered a draw. No one's making these facts up. They're there and ignored because the league position is looking bad. As for 'one way of playing' etc: we play a more possession based game against teams who set up to frustrate and we rely on our counter attack at other times. You talk about 'mantras', but that 'one way of playing' stuff is more of a mantra than anything.

TheHumbleEgg said:
As an aside, I've also watched and re-watched games lately, solely focusing on LUKAKU alone... and it's shocking/disappointing for the most, the amount of times he 'asks'/shouts for the ball yet seemingly gets blanked. I'm not suggesting anything remotely sinister in this, it's how they're being encouraged to play. Arsenal, Sunday, we strung about 30 passes together at one point with the ARSE not getting a touch...

It was lovely.

And it went nowhere & served no purpose.

Like this season in many ways.

Anyway, I expect we'll know more later. Pffff.....
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Lukaku has been criminally wasted this season. In fact, I'd go as far back as last season and say the same. The lad gets into positions that others cant see he's ready to exploit. He could have had 25 last season easy. This season the same. RM has to find a player with the nous to release Lukaku with the ball in front of him. Most of us have been calling out for a playmaker and it's dead right. It reminds me of Moyes and his obsession with turning strikers into channel runners, but in Martinez's case he seems to be intent on turning Lukaku into a big target man to service others, and that is a big mistake and waste of money.
 
sixtynineseventy said:
Peteblue - what would be you view if we didn't win the El and still finished 17th?
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If we go out of it early our prem form will improve anyway, if we stay in it and get beaten in Semi or Final and come 17th I'll be happy. We have a decent team and a decent manager, let's just see how it plays out, as has been said no need to panic...
 
Del said:
No he didn't

He inherited an ageing back four, A side with no really quality upfront in Jelavic and Vic and a midfield consisting of Osman/Pienaar/Gibson and Naismith

Lets stop pretending the man took over a quality side because he certainly did not
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He had Coleman, Barklay, Baines, Fellaini, Stones, Pienaar, so he had some quality as well, and could of added to it, but he decided to buy`Wigan` and in my opinion a great striker for 28m, who does not get played in his strongest and most favoured position.
What alarms me is how under Martinez he has held players back, and destroyed self-confidence, poor management, it is no use running your balls off with 90% possession, increasing players work rate, that in turn makes a player more prone to injury, whilst providing no threat up front as your main striker does not get the ball at all! It reminds me of watching a superior tennis player who just knocks the ball around the other players side, making the opposition run thier nuts off! It has been all season also, this is not a bad run or tempory loss of form, bad management
 

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
That's not at all what is happening though

There's a difference between being reasonably worried about something and getting hysterical

I've seen very little hysteria. I've seen concern, and perfectly understandable concern at that
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Do me a favour mate.
 
Ashtonian said:
calm is what we have now, and we are sinking more and more each week. we need panic and hysteria. We need the fan base to turn on the manager and we need the players to go out there and play for him and fight to save both him and the team.

Of course we need to panic, we need to thrive in that panic because where we are is well below where we should be and right now we can go down especially as we still have to play villa and QPR.
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We need energy and determination and passion. That's not the same as panic. Panic begets mistakes.
 
A point tonight would be a decent result. A win is too much to hope for , but yes the Newcastle game will be a very big game for us.
 
davek said:
But that argument only stands if our form of late has been exceptionally bad and things aren't working. It's not like that though is it? Last 8 games we've played we won 3, drew 3 and lost two; scored 10 and conceded 7. The game against Chelsea lost was a tough one and could/should have offered a draw. No one's making these facts up. They're there and ignored because the league position is looking bad. As for 'one way of playing' etc: we play a more possession based game against teams who set up to frustrate and we rely on our counter attack at other times. You talk about 'mantras', but that 'one way of playing' stuff is more of a mantra than anything.



Lukaku has been criminally wasted this season. In fact, I'd go as far back as last season and say the same. The lad gets into positions that others cant see he's ready to exploit. He could have had 25 last season easy. This season the same. RM has to find a player with the nous to release Lukaku with the ball in front of him. Most of us have been calling out for a playmaker and it's dead right. It reminds me of Moyes and his obsession with turning strikers into channel runners, but in Martinez's case he seems to be intent on turning Lukaku into a big target man to service others, and that is a big mistake and waste of money.
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Exactly. What I wouldn't give for a Peter Reid type player right now.......
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Definitions of "cult"

A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members

A misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular thing

A person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society:
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Yeah, that sounds EXACTLY like being critical but supportive of a football manager who's team aren't hitting the heights he had them hitting last season.
 

Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
At that point, it would be somewhat merrited

Newcastle is the biggie though

Lose that and we should all worry
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Id argue tonight is worse mate.

A loss here and we have literally strolled to a serious league position. One thing for us to not win games but when Villa are so close now and they have least amount of goals scored then it is a serious situation.
 
Lads, lads, lads. Either go to the game shout your heads off and let off some steam, or go the pub and have a few pints and relax. An early grave awaits you otherwise........
 
Ashtonian said:
Id argue tonight is worse mate.

A loss here and we have literally strolled to a serious league position. One thing for us to not win games but when Villa are so close now and they have least amount of goals scored then it is a serious situation.
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Its an away game against a fairly decent Stoke side with a pretty decent home record.

In normal seasons I would be expecting a win without any fuss, but sadly this is far from a normal season, so in that case I would prolly be happy with a draw and I dont feel a defeat would be a complete failure.

As others have said, a game versus a terrible Newcastle side at Home is much more of a win or riot issue, for me at least.
 

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