Roberto Martinez discussion

[cronullasharks]

And I think most people thought it would be difficult...so why they cant have some bloody patience while he changes things and refreshes the squad is beyond me.

Because he isn't exactly refreshing the squad, giving contract extensions to hibbert, Osman and distin shows this. He's had a few opportunities to play Garbutt and Browning this season but has opted to go with Hibbert.

How long before these younger players decide they've no future here and leave, then we have to go out and spend $$ on players in positions we already had covered.

 

[The Equaliser]

Don't agree with that, never want Liverpool to win

Yep, things are bad. But not bad enough to be needing favours from the RS. Yet.

 

[davek]

All of what you said is fair, but the only problem I have with that is that would be a lot of weekends between now and May that are to be written off. we should, with this squad, be winning 60% of our games IMHO

I think we have to cut our losses with this league campaign. It's a season we need to get through but also salvage something from for next season. I dont see the point of doing what we've done over and over with the same core of players and hope that it eventually clicks - and for what: a top 7 spot? Great. Not arsed about that 'achievement', tbh.

We need to give the two cups a massive effort and clarify exactly what we have and where we stand for next season. Obviously no manager is ever going to state that in public, but I hope this is the approach being being settled on by the management team and that this has been conveyed to the club hierarchy.

What we dont want is panic based on short term fixated goals. We have to look at this in the medium term of what's best for the team over the next 18 months now, not on whether we can get back to the hunt for a European spot this season. We'll end up tormenting ourselves with such an approach. This season's league campaign never took off and it wont now. We need to cut it adrift.

 

[ianefc]

I think we have to cut our losses with this league campaign. It's a season we need to get through but also salvage something from for next season. I dont see the point of doing what we've done over and over with the same core of players and hope that it eventually clicks - and for what: a top 7 spot? Great. Not arsed about that 'achievement', tbh.

We need to give the two cups a massive effort and clarify exactly what we have and where we stand for next season. Obviously no manager is ever going to state that in public, but I hope this is the approach being being settled on by the management team and that this has been conveyed to the club hierarchy.

What we dont want is panic based on short term fixated goals. We have to look at this in the medium term of what's best for the team over the next 18 months now, not on whether we can get back to the hunt for a European spot this season. We'll end up tormenting ourselves with such an approach. This season's league campaign never took off and it wont now. We need to cut it adrift.

we need a further 20 points to stay up and after tomorrow we'll be halfway through the season, Another manager can guide us through the cup competitions whilst giving Evertonians something to shout about in the league, we can't just keep getting beat and drawing with teams that just sit back against us knowing our style of play is not a creative one. For me everytime we lose or don't win it ruins me until the next game, which we at the moment seem to go onto not win

 

[ianefc]

@davek you do realise that in 07/08 Moyes (with a squad that is not as good as our current one) guided us to 5th and the last 16 of the EL, which is not as things stand an achievement, but if we get knocked out of the EL in the quarters and 'write off' the league I simply can't accept that as being acceptable, Can you?

 

[davek]

we need a further 20 points to stay up and after tomorrow we'll be halfway through the season, Another manager can guide us through the cup competitions whilst giving Evertonians something to shout about in the league, we can't just keep getting beat and drawing with teams that just sit back against us knowing our style of play is not a creative one. For me everytime we lose or don't win it ruins me until the next game, which we at the moment seem to go onto not win

This really is barking at the moon stuff. I'm sure you know that it isn't likely to happen.

We have a manager two years into a job. The first season he overshot expectations by some distance; this season he's undershot expectations - but we are still within grabbing distance of the upper half of the table with the next two games over the Christmas period.

If you think all that adds up to a new manager being required you need to give yourself a massive reality check.

 

[davek]

@davek you do realise that in 07/08 Moyes (with a squad that is not as good as our current one) guided us to 5th and the last 16 of the EL, which is not as things stand an achievement, but if we get knocked out of the EL in the quarters and 'write off' the league I simply can't accept that as being acceptable, Can you?

What, you mean a manager 6 seasons into the job and onto building his second team in comparison with our current manager 18 months into building his first one?

Yes, that's a sound basis for assessment.

 

[ianefc]

This really is barking at the moon stuff. I'm sure you know that it isn't likely to happen.

We have a manager two years into a job. The first season he overshot expectations by some distance; this season he's undershot expectations - but we are still within grabbing distance of the upper half of the table with the next two games over the Christmas period.

If you think all that adds up to a new manager being required you need to give yourself a massive reality check.

No and NO mate, first no, as things stand I think it would be relatively easy to give us something to shout about in the league say 8 or 9 wins from the last 20 games as appose to 5 in the first 18 and secondly overshot our expectations? I'd of expected top 7 with the squad he was allowed to assemble last season so he beat it by 2, this year I'd of expected to 7 again, but this time at least, and we are missing by a mile as we speak.

 

[Brennan]

What, you mean a manager 6 seasons into the job and onto building his second team in comparison with our current manager 18 months into building his first one?

Yes, that's a sound basis for assessment.

The same manager who nearly got us relegated in his second full season, but went on to guide us to stability. A lot of the meffs on here would have sacked Moyes two seasons in and we'd probably be watching Stubbs standing on the sidelines telling Tony Hibbert to hoof it in the Championship.

 

[ianefc]

What, you mean a manager 6 seasons into the job and onto building his second team in comparison with our current manager 18 months into building his first one?

Yes, that's a sound basis for assessment.

It's all relative mate, you simply have to look at he squad's available at the start of each season, you will go a long way to hear a fair argument that says that this current crop isn't the best the a EFC PL manager has had to deal with.

 

[davek]

The same manager who nearly got us relegated in his second full season, but went on to guide us to stability. A lot of the meffs on here would have sacked Moyes two seasons in and we'd probably be watching Stubbs standing on the sidelines telling Tony Hibbert to hoof it in the Championship.

Thankfully they remain a small but noisy cabal who typify nothing.

 

[davek]

No and NO mate, first no, as things stand I think it would be relatively easy to give us something to shout about in the league say 8 or 9 wins from the last 20 games as appose to 5 in the first 18 and secondly overshot our expectations? I'd of expected top 7 with the squad he was allowed to assemble last season so he beat it by 2, this year I'd of expected to 7 again, but this time at least, and we are missing by a mile as we speak.

That's a sense of entitlement you had no right to demand of any new manager...you only have it because that same manager got us a record PL points total last season.

D'you see how it works now?

 

[ianefc]

The same manager who nearly got us relegated in his second full season, but went on to guide us to stability. A lot of the meffs on here would have sacked Moyes two seasons in and we'd probably be watching Stubbs standing on the sidelines telling Tony Hibbert to hoof it in the Championship.

You almost lose the argument when you resort to name calling,
Player
1 GK Richard Wright
2 DF Steve Watson
3 DF Alessandro Pistone
4 DF Alan Stubbs
5 DF David Weir
6 DF David Unsworth
8 FW Tomasz Radzinski[1]
9 FW Kevin Campbell
10 FW Duncan Ferguson
11 FW Francis Jeffers (on loan from Arsenal)
12 MF Li Tie
13 GK Steve Simonsen
14 MF Kevin Kilbane[2]
15 DF Gary Naysmith
16 MF Thomas Gravesen
17 MF Scot Gemmill
18 FW Wayne Rooney
20 DF Joseph Yobo
21 MF Alex Nyarko
22 MF Tobias Linderoth
24 FW James McFadden
25 GK Nigel Martyn
26 MF Lee Carsley[3]
27 DF Peter Clarke
28 DF Tony Hibbert
30 FW Nick Chadwick
31 MF Leon Osman
35GK Paul Gerrard

That was Moyes 2nd season squad, is that better than our current squad??? if you think it is then I suggest you go start taking some 'Meph'

 

[Boss_Blue]

Can't be arsed posting in this thread again for a while.

Please note that my opinions on any matter debated in here from now on are fully reflected by @davek






Disclaimer: unless he is talking about Naismith.

 

[ianefc]

That's a sense of entitlement you had no right to demand of any new manager...you only have it because that same manager got us a record PL points total last season.

D'you see how it works now?

OK so what would you have accepted last season?