Remembering Moyes

[NEC]

Try this mate, Everton match day revenue.. 17mil total

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/18/premier-league-club-accounts-debt

correct now subtract the amount of revenue generated by Stoke or WBA for example 17m-8m= £9m more to us...

anyhow my point remains, Moyes did a god little rescue mission and dined out on it for far longer than he should at a very expensive salary too.

 

[Khalekan]

Eh? Seamlessly run into each other?

So you think the next number in this sequence should be 7th and that 9 out of the next 11 should be 8th or above?

13th, 17th, 15th, 6th, 15th, 17th, 14th, 13th, 16th, 15th....
A quick and simple analysis will tell you its far from seamless continuity here, as that would of seen us top half once.. maybe (clearly an anomaly as we didn't get close again), fighting relegation regularly, and bottom half for all but one year of the entire duration of the era.

Under Moyes however, we had two years finishing bottom half, one very poor, the other better than all bar one season from the decade before, the rest of the finishes were all 8th and above including being the first team to break the top 4 glass ceiling.
This actually happened despite every caveat you lot can come up with to claim its mid table or the irrelevance of finishing 4th, or that style of play is all that counts blah blah... this is what actually happened.

7th,17th,4th,11th,6th,5th,5th,8th,7th,7th,6th

So, year by year and he's been bettered just once.

12th, 13th, 17th, 15th, 6th, 15th, 17th, 14th, 13th, 16th, 15th ----Not Moyes -Total 153 places
-7th, 17th, -4th, -11th, 6th, -5th, --5th, -8th, --7th, -7th, -6th ---- Moyes - Total 83 places

In the two 11 year periods, Moyes got us a total of 70 places better off.. That's nearly twice as good as the combined efforts of every manager that decade+ including Kendall and Royle.

Anyone who sees that as seamless is simply not willing to see.

Martinez playing style>Moyes, but he's going to have to do something spectacular to improve on the impact Moyes and his 'seamless transition' had on our team.

Although a simple cup win would do it.

Even at our best during that era, under Royle, his 6th place finish was equalled or bettered no less than 5 times out of 11 by DM, the second best finish in the previous period is worse than Moyes second worst finish.. I'll just repeat that... the second best we could achieve before Moyes, in the same time frame he was here, was worse than all but one of Moyes finishes.. After Royles 6th, we couldn't even muster a single 11th or better.

Seamless? The two runs of finishes would be hard pushed to be less seamless if they tried.

Do completely agree with the last couple of sentences though, thank you SAF.

Apologies for the RAWKness of this post but these are unedited facts, not agenda driven spin, they are the league finishes as they were, the bare facts if you can compare them and come up with them being seamlessly running into each other, genuinely i'd love to hear your perspective on how that can be.

I haters....it really isn't much of a stat, you know.

I mean, trainspotting fans in the future might find the wow factor in what you say but no regular guys are.

I do not intend revisiting the Moyes saga again and I will merely say you are clutching at a pretty short straw if that is what you are going to put forward as evidence that Mr. Moyes is some kind of a managerial wizard.

He ain't.

What the aforementioned trainspotters may in fact more readily notice is that the pre Moyes decade you so deride actually saw EFC win sommat.

Ergo our grandchildren will look back on the 1990s with more interest than the first decade and a bit of this century because they will actually have something tangible to look back on.

No one will be saying......."gee whiz, grandad.....look how finished fifth and sixth more often than we finished eleventh and twelfth"

 

[Ihaters]

I haters....it really isn't much of a stat, you know.


I do not intend revisiting the Moyes saga again and I will merely say you are clutching at a pretty short straw if that is what you are going to put forward as evidence that Mr. Moyes is some kind of a managerial wizard.

When did I say he was a managerial wizard?

Look you see 15th followed by 16th, then think that 7th is the next logical finish... I don't.

You see the team we started with and the team he left and see it as roughly the same.... I don't.

You seem to think he did a poor job.... I don't.

NEC thinks that we went from relegation fighting to euro fighting on the back 17mil a year in gate receipts despite overtaking the likes of Spurs, Villa, Newcastle etc who have more.. I don't

We all agree we are in a better place now that Moyes has been replaced by Martinez, its just some appreciate what he did, some do not, I don't think he's a managerial wizard, just think you lot are massively underestimating the quality of job he did for us mate.

Oh and that difference between our league positions then and now is a superb stat, both as a supporter of the progress Moyes gave us, and as an Evertonian, its the equivalent of no silverware for your side of the argument.. There is no argument against either, he greatly improved us but won nothing..

That is in black and white and that is what will be remembered, because if you take away all the fluff and bluster and caveats people make up to further their position... that is what happened.

 

[Joey66]

This thread should be closed - If WE and UNT had won handsomely on Saturday would this thread have ever been started ?????
DM is an ex Man U Manager who shafted our club when he left, can fans remember all that?
He got a great honourable send off - then the truth came out on a number of things!
I hope we are never that desperate to ever employ him again in any capacity at our club!
I hope he is history to our great club - end of!

 

[Khalekan]

When did I say he was a managerial wizard?

Look you see 15th followed by 16th, then think that 7th is the next logical finish... I don't.

You see the team we started with and the team he left and see it as roughly the same.... I don't.

You seem to think he did a poor job.... I don't.

NEC thinks that we went from relegation fighting to euro fighting on the back 17mil a year in gate receipts despite overtaking the likes of Spurs, Villa, Newcastle etc who have more.. I don't

We all agree we are in a better place now that Moyes has been replaced by Martinez, its just some appreciate what he did, some do not, I don't think he's a managerial wizard, just think you lot are massively underestimating the quality of job he did for us mate.

Oh and that difference between our league positions then and now is a superb stat, both as a supporter of the progress Moyes gave us, and as an Evertonian, its the equivalent of no silverware for your side of the argument.. There is no argument against either, he greatly improved us but won nothing..

That is in black and white and that is what will be remembered, because if you take away all the fluff and bluster and caveats people make up to further their position... that is what happened.

Ihaters....put the spade down, pal. Stop digging.

You are flogging the ground the dead horse was laying on.

 

[Dymak]

Moyes' legacy will depend entirely on what comes after. If Martinez kicks on, he'll always be seen as a nearly man, never good enough for a top team. If Martinez also fails to break the glass ceiling then Moyes' legacy becomes more favorable - someone who took as as far as anyone could ever expect. If Martinez oversees a period of decline, then Moyes' looks like a Moyesiah again.

I expect it will be the first choice, but let's not pretend like Moyes is or was a bad manager. He is a spectacular manager for a club looking to stabilize, and if I were any of the bottom half teams I would be doing everything in my power to get Moyes to the club as my first option.

Either way, everyone involved needed to clear out and get fresh air. Moyes needed to prove himself (or fail to) at United, and we needed to get new ideas into what had become stagnation.

Moyes was a bell over the transfer window, and his comments about Everton on the whole. This made me enjoy his failure at United. It does not change that he was an extremely good manager for us when we were perennially fighting relegation.

Whether he's remembered fondly will hinge upon Roberto Martinez.

ETA: Like Gordon Lee is not remembered fondly by many due to what followed. If HK had been a failure, I suspect Lee would be seen more favourably.

I think the same applies to how Van Gaal does at United. It will be no surprise to see Van Gaal do well at United, but if he fails, then I think Moyes' tenure at United won't be ridiculed as much as it is right now, and he will regain his reputation as a good manager.

 

[bignev23]

I hated the way he made Baines and Piennar hoof it to each other all the time.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Who or what is UNT

 

[blue61]

Who or what is UNT

United Nosediving Together

 

[Joey66]

I hated the way he made Baines and Piennar hoof it to each other all the time.

Yes and sod all coming down the right in Hibbert { sending Coleman out on loan}and Osman { who was never a winger} how many players did he play out wide right - Osman - Rodwell - Barkley - Naismith - Billy - McFadden- that I can think of - he also sold SP part of the Baines partnership to Spurs, and paid more to fetch him back!

 

[weaf]

I remember the 90's, believe me, the FA Cup win didn't make up for just how miserable it was to be an Everton fan back then. The general feeling of hopelessness as we got battered yet again, the low league finishes and depressing relegation scraps. I will always be grateful to Moyes for saving us from those days. They were grim.

 

[toffee matt]

The people who don't want to talk about Moyes, Spend an awful lot of time talking about Moyes

 

[sageyefc]

Yes and sod all coming down the right in Hibbert { sending Coleman out on loan}and Osman { who was never a winger} how many players did he play out wide right - Osman - Rodwell - Barkley - Naismith - Billy - McFadden- that I can think of - he also sold SP part of the Baines partnership to Spurs, and paid more to fetch him back!

Anichebe *shudders

 

[Ihaters]

Ihaters....put the spade down, pal. Stop digging.

You are flogging the ground the dead horse was laying on.

Great post, good stats, nice opinions, well written, would read again...

 

[banno]

I remember the 90's, believe me, the FA Cup win didn't make up for just how miserable it was to be an Everton fan back then. The general feeling of hopelessness as we got battered yet again, the low league finishes and depressing relegation scraps. I will always be grateful to Moyes for saving us from those days. They were grim.

He polished the turd a little but not enough and it took him 11 seasons. Question is.....how does he compare with Bingham and Gordon Lee