Robert Earl

[BlackToffee]

I know mate, I've been

I've never been approached by a beggar in the Maccies drive-thru in any other town in the UK than Kirkby. Even in Walton.

As for my posts. I don't see your point Bruce. I've already said all I need to say about the Everton team on my own forum by the time I get round to coming over here and doing my usual search (I go on Kipper and here, search for my site's name, and reply to the posts containing my it where replies are either needed, or where the topic takes my fancy)

As for other questions, I don't know specifically who Kenwright should sell his shares to, but then it's not my job to find him a buyer is it. He's instructed Keith Harris to do that - although Elstone reckons he hasn't....

I do know that once the Kirkby thing falls flat on it's face - which it will - that there will be another project on the horizon, and then another, and then another. Just like when Everton failed to turn the stadium into the 50,000 seater arena they showed pictures of to the press in the mid-1990's.

I can see Kirkby getting the go-ahead from parliament. But with the clause in the deal that nothing can be built until all the compulsary purchases are completed, Everton's interest and ability to afford it will fade as the fight to get Dot Reid out of her house rages on and on. That woman on Edge Lane has fought a CPO for four years now...

The sooner Everton move onto other, more suitable, projects, the better.

Si, before the project was called it I was told by opponents that it was a done deal, that we would be moving. Now I am told (using your all seeing vision for the future) that it will definetly not go ahead.

I'd rather wait until the people in the know tell us before we start the celebrations either way. Planning law is not a fixed point in time that will never be broken or bent.

As for the CPO, don't really know about the lady on Edge Lane, but CPO's are more about a process, and if this enquiry does say yes, those who are being compulsory purchased can cry all they like, but it will simply be, take the offer we make, or lose out altogether.

Simple as.

 

[SimonP]

Si, before the project was called it I was told by opponents that it was a done deal, that we would be moving. Now I am told (using your all seeing vision for the future) that it will definetly not go ahead.

I've always said it will fall through. The cause will be Everton's inability to fund their part of it - that has always been my point of view. I thought it would be called in, and I think the result of the call-in will be to give it the go-ahead. That doesn't change Everton's inability to fund their share.

As for the CPO, don't really know about the lady on Edge Lane, but CPO's are more about a process, and if this enquiry does say yes, those who are being compulsory purchased can cry all they like, but it will simply be, take the offer we make, or lose out altogether.

Simple as.

It's not really though is it? Tesco's have agreed to have a clause in their work that states that no building work can be carried out until the CPO's are done.

The woman on Edge Lane, like I said, is standing in the way of major works and has been doing so for four years now.

Those old women in Anfield stood in the way of LFC turning their stadium round for something like a decade until they abandoned the plans.

If Tesco want to build this scheme, they need the land those houses are on. The legal process of carrying out the CPO will delay it if one person says no.

They might lose out on some money, but they'll get to keep their home - potentially for the rest of their days. Maybe to some people their home is more important than a few extra quid?

The delay will increase costs beyond what Everton can afford (if they can even afford the current prices bandied about - they haven't raised a penny towards it yet) and time will pass the club by - again.

These problems were all foreseen and told to the club. They were told it would get called in - 18 months before it did. They don't listen. They want a stadium by 2011? Not a chance in hell whilst persuing this scheme.

 

[BlackToffee]

Why delay 'putting more money in' then? What other possible connection is there between 'investing more' and getting an answer on the stadium issue?

Making a return on investment is not the same as hiking up share prices. I don't recall Earl saying that he was a philanthropist investing in a worthy cause.

Dismissed by all? Or dismissed by the current board who are in thrall to Tesco's vision of Everton's future, or the club's stadium 'experts' who stand to make a killing in any Kirkby stadium build? Not really the same thing is it?

As much as Si leaks plans like a sieve on his site, all have been seen and dismissed. Besides the board have a duty to make a decision based on criteria it sets up. We're not playing in fantasy land. This is the real world. Its also not just about nice pretty drawings, such as the loop which bares little resemblance to reality.

A vote spoiler? I think offering only a Plan A was perhaps the biggest vote spoiler in that whole sorry process back in July/August 2007. And why is offering alternatives that the club refused to offer during the ballot period a 'vote spoiler'? Because Robert Elstone told you it was?

500 yards/500 miles - it's still not Liverpool. Besides, portraying KEIOC's opposition to Kirkby on that single issue is cartoonish, reductive nonsense. You've no doubt read their evidence on the transport plan?

It maybe a cartoonish cariacature, but one to which they carried out to aplomb at the enquiry. Neither the cost of the loop, the technical difficulty associated with building it, nor the fact that they and the Council conspired to wreck the ballot concerned them, because it was inside the political boundary.

How else will these self appointed guardians seek to drag our name through the mud? Who else will they seek to make alliances with? I hear the devil is seeking new partners willing to sell their souls.

You are then asking this same Liverpool City Council to work with Everton to find a new ground? Get real mate. Barnet Council have been "supportive" of the local football club having their own stadia within the borough, but they have used every foul means to prevent this happeneing.

Sound familiar?

Agent Johnson. Oh yeah, he was the feller that loaded Everton with debt and tried to shift the club to Kirkby. Do you know anyone else who fits that description? I'll have a good think and get back to you.

And yes, I have read the KEIOC contribution to the transport plan. They make a strong case, the only piece of sense that they have spouted. But picking up on contradictions is child's play.

With regards to Johnson, obviously if a stadia was built within the boundary, it would come debt free and no technical difficulty would be too much and commercial partners would be beating down the door to join the project (strange its not happened). The only thing that I would agree with you on is that the transport infrastructure maybe better.

 

[davek]

Making a return on investment is not the same as hiking up share prices. I don't recall Earl saying that he was a philanthropist investing in a worthy cause.

He's certainly not a football benefactor. He sees Everton as 'Planet Simonswood' - a theme club he can squeeze as much from before moving onto flogging his next 'produce'.

As much as Si leaks plans like a sieve on his site, all have been seen and dismissed. Besides the board have a duty to make a decision based on criteria it sets up. We're not playing in fantasy land. This is the real world. Its also not just about nice pretty drawings, such as the loop which bares little resemblance to reality.

Have you seen the Alan Stubbs walk through video?!! They promised world class and iconic - they're offering a mid-Premier League hovel. That's what I call trading in fantasy.

It maybe a cartoonish cariacature, but one to which they carried out to aplomb at the enquiry. Neither the cost of the loop, the technical difficulty associated with building it, nor the fact that they and the Council conspired to wreck the ballot concerned them, because it was inside the political boundary.

No, it's just costs that are the sticking point with suggested alternatives, not insurmountable technical problems. And let's face it, if it's cost that's the sticking point, then the club itself couldn't provide it's own business plan for Kirkby.

How else will these self appointed guardians seek to drag our name through the mud? Who else will they seek to make alliances with? I hear the devil is seeking new partners willing to sell their souls.

What, like a club suing its own supporters, or the CEO of the club describing Goodison Park as one of the worst in the Premiership and allowing it's witmess at the inquiry to state that the club have a ground that's horrible and one of the worst in western Europe...that type of dragging through the mud?

You are then asking this same Liverpool City Council to work with Everton to find a new ground? Get real mate. Barnet Council have been "supportive" of the local football club having their own stadia within the borough, but they have used every foul means to prevent this happeneing.

Sound familiar?

But hold on, didn't the city council 'nobble' the Bellefield Inquiry to stop Everton leaving Liverpool? Oh what a tangled web we weave.....

With regards to Johnson, obviously if a stadia was built within the boundary, it would come debt free and no technical difficulty would be too much and commercial partners would be beating down the door to join the project (strange its not happened).

Let's give that a fair go and see what happens.

The only thing that I would agree with you on is that the transport infrastructure maybe better.

Better? I think that might be understatement of the year. It's primitive.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You call Kirby a mid Prem level hovel Dave. It will be considerably better than Goodison in terms of facilities. Yet our board are somehow being dishonest for calling Goodison one of the worst grounds in the league. Surely by your very own logic you've agreed with them?

 

[davek]

You call Kirby a mid Prem level hovel Dave. It will be considerably better than Goodison in terms of facilities. Yet our board are somehow being dishonest for calling Goodison one of the worst grounds in the league. Surely by your very own logic you've agreed with them?

No.

Hovel (noun) - an open shed.

Seems appropriate for Kirkby, but not a term I'd advance to describe a historic venue that has the world's only adjoining Archibald Leach double decker stands.

 

[SimonP]

You call Kirby a mid Prem level hovel Dave. It will be considerably better than Goodison in terms of facilities. Yet our board are somehow being dishonest for calling Goodison one of the worst grounds in the league. Surely by your very own logic you've agreed with them?

I'm not sure where the board have been called "dishonest" for calling Goodison "one of the worst grounds in the COUNTRY" (it's important we use Robert Elstone's actual words)

Still, we've gone from being excited about a "world class stadium befitting the name of Everton" to "well it's better than Goodison...."

Shameful.

A ground move is the one of the most important things a club can do - it's important it's done properly.

Kirkby is not enough of an improvement.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And presumably the few hundred million for a world class new stadium will come from the same money tree people are using when they compose lists of ideal signings containing the likes of Moutinho, Fernandes et al.

This ideal land you seek is not anywhere on our horizon. Taking yet more time to wait for the golden goose to come will simply further entrench the already awful finances we currently have. Presumably you'll be ok with selling our better players whilst we wait for this world class stadium to present itself?

 

[BlackToffee]

These problems were all foreseen and told to the club. They were told it would get called in - 18 months before it did. They don't listen. They want a stadium by 2011? Not a chance in hell whilst persuing this scheme.

If the club chose the Loop I am sure that no technical difficulty would be unsurmountable, no finances would be difficult to obtain, no partner would be languishing.

Same difference with Kirby. I think its called mitigating circumstances. They believe that the advantages of the scheme outweight the legal issues. Calling a scheme in doesn't kill a scheme, it simply calls the scheme in. No doubt if it does go Everton's way, people will find a way to say foul, we want the vote counted again. The fact that Liverpool City Council, for its own self interest opposing the scheme says more about their own self serving interests than trying to help Everton.

....and yes, Davek, dissing GP as far as I am concerned is never a good tactic. Nor is showing video of Everton violence to scare old ladies a clever thing to do. I wonder which instance the fans will remember?

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

wyness claimed that the main purpose of relocating was to generate additional funds to support david moyes & he estimated that revenue, not profit, would increase by approximately £10 million, subsequently amended by elstone to £11 million. i believe that at the inquiry the estimated profit from this increased revenue was quoted as approximately £6 million, assuming certain average attendance levels are maintained. when one considers the substantial level of increased debt the club will be burdened with, it does seem rash to take such risks with the clubs future gambling on such a modest return. it seems to me that this stadium has never made sense, but some remain desperate to believe the board's propaganda that there is no alternative. maybe if the transport arrangements were markedly better & the club had negotiated a better deal with tesco it would be a more realistic proposal, but as it stands i just don't see how it can work for everton's benefit. i don't think the lack of a good idea is enough reason for implementing a bad one.

 

[SimonP]

And presumably the few hundred million for a world class new stadium will come from the same money tree people are using when they compose lists of ideal signings containing the likes of Moutinho, Fernandes et al.

No idea to be honest. I'm a nurse, not a football financier. You got any ideas where the money is coming from for Kirkby?

This ideal land you seek is not anywhere on our horizon. Taking yet more time to wait for the golden goose to come will simply further entrench the already awful finances we currently have. Presumably you'll be ok with selling our better players whilst we wait for this world class stadium to present itself?

You do realise that Kirkby won't be built tomorrow don't you?

You do know it's going to take until AT LEAST August before there is even a decision made, don't you?

You are aware that Everton have raised ZERO money towards their contribution to Kirkby, aren't you?

You know that houses need to be bought off people who don't want to sell in order for this scheme to work, don't you?

Taking yet more time to wait for the cow's ass to come will simply further entrench the already awful finances we currently have. Presumably you'll be ok with selling our better players whilst we wait for Kirkby to present itself?

 

[Rook]

So will the big construction jobs cost less now that intrest rates are low and everybody is looking for work?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No idea to be honest. I'm a nurse, not a football financier. You got any ideas where the money is coming from for Kirkby?

It would seem that a large chunk of it is coming from Tesco, hence why the proposal is so attractive to the club.

You do realise that Kirkby won't be built tomorrow don't you?

You do know it's going to take until AT LEAST August before there is even a decision made, don't you?

You are aware that Everton have raised ZERO money towards their contribution to Kirkby, aren't you?

You know that houses need to be bought off people who don't want to sell in order for this scheme to work, don't you?

Taking yet more time to wait for the cow's ass to come will simply further entrench the already awful finances we currently have. Presumably you'll be ok with selling our better players whilst we wait for Kirkby to present itself?

Hmm, not sure on the tone of that, but anyway. If the club are to be believed the new stadium won't be providing vast income above what we currently earn from GP, not in modern footballing terms anyway. When Ronaldo's new contract is reported to be nearly twice the extra money we expect to earn from the new ground it seems safe to assume that either the club are being conservative with those estimates or they know a new ground is vital to securing other finance.

I'm fully aware of our finances, though thanks for asking. We're up **** creek. Without investment coming in this summer will be just as difficult as last summers, maybe more so as borrowing yet more money will be considerably harder now than then. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we're not trading at the back end of the window again as selling clubs will always wait as long as possible for a bigger offer when they know our funds are limited.

Taking yet more time to wait for the cow's ass to come will simply further entrench the already awful finances we currently have. Presumably you'll be ok with selling our better players whilst we wait for Kirkby to present itself?

Not really sure exactly what this means. The accounts are fully available on the OS and it's easy enough to do some analysis of them for our liquidity and so on. I produced some numbers on another thread somewhere on here and they're not good at all. Essentially it would appear we need bailing out, and the sooner the better. Even Dave will admit that this aint gonna happen until the stadium is resolved. It's taken a few years to get to this position with Kirby, if we have to wait another few years to get to a similarly advanced stage of an alternative development I think we seriously will have to become a selling club to keep afloat.

 

[TX Bill]

So Danny, do we merge this with the Kirkby thread now or close it up on it's own?

 

[Makis]

It would seem that a large chunk of it is coming from Tesco, hence why the proposal is so attractive to the club.

No it's not.