Nothing has changed in the past year under Moyes

[EvertruvianMan]

FA Cup (11) - one final, one semi, one QF.

3 8 wins 3 losses
4 5-3
5 3-2
6 2-1
SF 1-1 (pen win)
F 0-1

Wins 17 Losses 11

League Cup

A miserable 14 wins 10 losses (and some penalty shoot outs, another area we fail in)

Europe

14 wins 9 losses

45 wins 30 losses in total


Winners - nil

We played Toon and Rooney missed a penalty in the shoot out. When was this? I think we actually went through though sorry.

 

[andy king]

Not much has changed as Moyes is trying to turn Jelavic into Marcus Bent with him running the channels and tracking back all the time . . .

 

[EvertruvianMan]

Not much has changed as Moyes is trying to turn Jelavic into Marcus Bent with him running the channels and tracking back all the time . . .

It might work with a ball winning cruncher infront of the back four (Carsley) a ball playing psychopath and all round nutcase looking for the through balls (who is fit for a season) (Gravesen) and utilizing a never before seen AM from a league below that has his roots in Aussie Rules and so when the ball is in the air its GAME TIME!!! (Cahill)
I want a striker prepared to put the yards in up front to make space and pull the game to our flanks, christ knows we have the quality on the left side, but what I do not forgive is an international that cant figure out some crap defences and stay onside when a player as limited and with no international experience like Bent could run the channels and go through on goal more often than not staying on bleeding side.
This league is not the Scottish league, its a few cuts or ten above.

For my money Bent was more physical, a bit closer to Mark Hughes (in terms of brawn and taking a knock) compared to Jelavic being more a Sherringham type not so much about pace but having the goal sense to take the right positions and find himself with a bit of luck working himself a chance or a few half chances and slotting where the likes of a Shearer/Drogba/Ferdinand scored chances you would expect but not picking up the goals from odd places (Spurs at Goodison both times for instance).

 

[andy king]

It might work with a ball winning cruncher infront of the back four (Carsley) a ball playing psychopath and all round nutcase looking for the through balls (who is fit for a season) (Gravesen) and utilizing a never before seen AM from a league below that has his roots in Aussie Rules and so when the ball is in the air its GAME TIME!!! (Cahill)
I want a striker prepared to put the yards in up front to make space and pull the game to our flanks, christ knows we have the quality on the left side, but what I do not forgive is an international that cant figure out some crap defences and stay onside when a player as limited and with no international experience like Bent could run the channels and go through on goal more often than not staying on bleeding side.
This league is not the Scottish league, its a few cuts or ten above.

For my money Bent was more physical, a bit closer to Mark Hughes (in terms of brawn and taking a knock) compared to Jelavic being more a Sherringham type not so much about pace but having the goal sense to take the right positions and find himself with a bit of luck working himself a chance or a few half chances and slotting where the likes of a Shearer/Drogba/Ferdinand scored chances you would expect but not picking up the goals from odd places (Spurs at Goodison both times for instance).

Some good points there mate, especially regarding Jelavic being caught offside so often. But i just think that Jealic showed last season that he is more of a natural finisher than Bent. And i'm sure we all expected more of the same this season, but it's just not happening. Looks like his confidence has gone even though he's still working hard . .

 

[evilwebby]

With Moyes it is always, always a case of "Hang onto what you've got". That means as soon as we go ahead, our mental attitude changes. This is a characteristic of the manager than permeates its way down through every single player. We are always hanging on at the end of matches, because of our unwillingness to go carry on going forward and put the question to bed. When we fall behind, we immediately assume an inferiority complex. That is not the mindset with which you can expect to win trophies.

Utimately it IS about the mindset of the club. We see the glass as half full that we are top half and supposedly punching above our weight. Teams who go out and win things see the glass as half empty. They always want more; they demand more, and if they manager or players don't deliver it then they don't last long.

The club can talk about ambition all they want, but talk is cheap. The actions of our club are those of a second rate outfit. We've been treading water for 20 years off the pitch, and each year that we continue to mix it up there with the better run clubs we somehow kid ourselves that somehow we must be doing something right, but the reality is that it's like removing the struts from under a bridge, and very soon we could find ourselves staring into an abyss when the worm turns.

 

[EvertruvianMan]

With Moyes it is always, always a case of "Hang onto what you've got". That means as soon as we go ahead, our mental attitude changes. This is a characteristic of the manager than permeates its way down through every single player. We are always hanging on at the end of matches, because of our unwillingness to go carry on going forward and put the question to bed. When we fall behind, we immediately assume an inferiority complex. That is not the mindset with which you can expect to win trophies.

Utimately it IS about the mindset of the club. We see the glass as half full that we are top half and supposedly punching above our weight. Teams who go out and win things see the glass as half empty. They always want more; they demand more, and if they manager or players don't deliver it then they don't last long.

The club can talk about ambition all they want, but talk is cheap. The actions of our club are those of a second rate outfit. We've been treading water for 20 years off the pitch, and each year that we continue to mix it up there with the better run clubs we somehow kid ourselves that somehow we must be doing something right, but the reality is that it's like removing the struts from under a bridge, and very soon we could find ourselves staring into an abyss when the worm turns.

You seem to be talking about comfort. Has the clear progress made led to an air of comfort that allows best of the rest being considered good enough? Even if it isnt actually Moyes belief is it a state of mind amongst some players that check out in February or at the 75 minute mark, or after they have scored....
There have been seasons where no one has come close to scoring as many as we have in the final 10 minutes.
Is this a shock season that has seen so few sides keep clean sheets and so with that premium removed from Moyes his averageness in other areas is exposed.

 

[billycopper]

When we're fresh we're a match for most sides. Today we looked very heavy-legged though. Distin (35), Neville (36), Osman (31) and Pienaar (30) have played a lot of football already this year. Peanuts, for example, has played 27 league games this season compared to Giggs (14), Ferdinand (18) and Scholes (14). It's a lot to ask players coming to the end of their careers to play every minute of every match against rivals who could literally be half their age.

 

[harry]

When we're fresh we're a match for most sides. Today we looked very heavy-legged though. Distin (35), Neville (36), Osman (31) and Pienaar (30) have played a lot of football already this year. Peanuts, for example, has played 27 league games this season compared to Giggs (14), Ferdinand (18) and Scholes (14). It's a lot to ask players coming to the end of their careers to play every minute of every match against rivals who could literally be half their age.

30 and 31 doesn't count.

 

[EvertruvianMan]

When we're fresh we're a match for most sides. Today we looked very heavy-legged though. Distin (35), Neville (36), Osman (31) and Pienaar (30) have played a lot of football already this year. Peanuts, for example, has played 27 league games this season compared to Giggs (14), Ferdinand (18) and Scholes (14). It's a lot to ask players coming to the end of their careers to play every minute of every match against rivals who could literally be half their age.

Giggs is 39 years old. Was once the fastest left winger ever seen. Pienaar has never been that player and is 9 years his junior having played in lesser and slower leagues than the prem. Giggs plays for Man Utd and they wouldnt play Gibson because he either wasnt up to their standard or wasnt fit enough to play enough to count.
Would Everton have been as great with one of the Holy Trinity missing every other game?

 

[evilwebby]

You seem to be talking about comfort. Has the clear progress made led to an air of comfort that allows best of the rest being considered good enough? Even if it isnt actually Moyes belief is it a state of mind amongst some players that check out in February or at the 75 minute mark, or after they have scored....
There have been seasons where no one has come close to scoring as many as we have in the final 10 minutes.
Is this a shock season that has seen so few sides keep clean sheets and so with that premium removed from Moyes his averageness in other areas is exposed.

Yes, definitely. It would never be said out aloud, but there is a mental block with the whole team and an inferiority complex about them when it comes to truely mixing it with the big boys. They know they are good enough that they won't be relegated, but conversely they've also believe that they cannot mix it with the top tier.

That is why our football usually goes to dog$h1t in these matches. We're afraid. Because if we try to play, we'll be beaten by the superior footballing team. IF we don't believe we can play as well as them, we stop competing on these terms and instead just revert to hoofball. The players have got it into their head that if they actually tried to play football they're going to lose.

It goes all the way back to Moyes' emphasis on preserving what you have, and his safety-first attitude to managing.

With that mentality we will never be winners.

 

[billycopper]

Giggs is 39 years old. Was once the fastest left winger ever seen. Pienaar has never been that player and is 9 years his junior having played in lesser and slower leagues than the prem. Giggs plays for Man Utd and they wouldnt play Gibson because he either wasnt up to their standard or wasnt fit enough to play enough to count.
Would Everton have been as great with one of the Holy Trinity missing every other game?

A player in his twenties can play all the time. Once they get into their thirties time quickly catches up with them. Take Landon Donovan as an example. In his first loan spell with us he was a flying winger and just 2 years later (aged 29) he played at a more sedate pace. Today we had three midfielders in their thirties competing against McCarthy (22), Gomez (27) and Beausejour (28) and we were second to every ball.

We only really use 13 players too. Moyes has Oviedo, Barkley, Hitzlsperger and Naismith to rotate to keep the side fresh.

 

[TX Bill]

I don't usually post but feel I just need to get today off my chest. I've watched Everton for 36 years. I've been a regular match goer since 1977 so I seen my fair share of Everton. Today was one of the worst experiences I've felt because we just threw in the towel. I can take us losing, but going down without a fight is unforgivable. To be honest, I still haven't got my head around today but I'll share my thoughts.

For me, today was all about the end of an era. The well has finally ran dry, and in that I mean Moyes. The way we came out in the second half spoke volumes to me about the motivation of the team - there was none. Moyes is no longer motivating these players, which in the past has been one of his main strengths. I feel like he himself has probably had enough and this is transcending to the players. Today, that was evident more than ever. Tactically we were naive, almost disinterested. Playing Phil Neville who alone afforded the freedom of the midfield to Wigan was a shocking selection because everyone can see his best days are long, long gone. What doesn't excuse it is the fact that we had better players on the bench, players who could have a positive effect on the team. Neville no longer offers that positive effect, not even in a motivational sense because he is a good talker.

So playing Neville was a clanger, but that wasn't the only thing that disturbed me. As I said, mentally, the team looked finished. It's time for Moyes to go. He knows it, everyone knows it. I'd be happy if someone like Laudrup or Martinez came in, sell Fellaini and Heitinga, and make a fresh start. If that doesn't happen then I fear for the coming years.

Today wasn't just a bad day at the office. I've seen this before and it was more than that.

I think you've put into words what MANY are feeling and thinking after today's result. I used to be in the IMWT camp but no more. Time for a change.

Keep the posts coming sir.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Dan, I've known you from 606 etc for a while, and fan of the year, you are by far my most respected web fan, and I can't disagree with anything here, even if we had tonked Wigan I would still want Moyes gone.

he has done a wonderful job, but now it's time for someone else to do an even more wonderful job.

 

[EvertruvianMan]

A player in his twenties can play all the time. Once they get into their thirties time quickly catches up with them. Take Landon Donovan as an example. In his first loan spell with us he was a flying winger and just 2 years later (aged 29) he played at a more sedate pace. Today we had three midfielders in their thirties competing against McCarthy (22), Gomez (27) and Beausejour (28) and we were second to every ball.

We only really use 13 players too. Moyes has Oviedo, Barkley, Hitzlsperger and Naismith to rotate to keep the side fresh.

Today we were second to every ball even when it had been passed or broken to our players - when a sides first touch is a pass to the opposition primary school children will run rings around you. As wet and slippery as the ground was they played on the same pitch.
Today I saw the gaping chasm Arteta left like I have never seen before. And it made me sad and frustrated.

 

[Bigmaclad]

One of the problems with Moyes is that he doesn't choose the side/lineup around the opposition. He plays the same players/formation no matter who the opponent is and what threat they possess.

When we played Wigan this season Kone has had tons of joy vs Heitinga, whilst Fellaini was inneffectual in behind the striker. What does Moyes do? Play the exact same lineup.


*sigh