Biggest Everton traitors

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Do you think people like Earl (if he actually owns what's in BCR Sports) dont have a portfolio of shares and assets they sit on? Shares in a football club in the PL - whilst the crazy tv revenues are still knocking about - are safe as houses. As for Green, you either accept or dont accept the notion he's behind the scenes pulling the strings. There's enough circumstantial evidence to support it, though not a smoking gun.

Not for 7 years without a sniff of a profit I don't ,no. Cash has to be worked, share investments are generally short to medium term.

In your scenario they're sat there waiting for some mythical state funded handout, that could take years to arrive, years to develop & years to build. Sorry I just don't buy that at all.

More likely imo, is that there's little pressure being put on Kenwright to sell the club, as the ulitmate owner of the equity doesn't really give a **** about such a paltry figure. You're talking about a man who paid his missus a £1BN bonus a few years back (tax scam) £9m sat in EFC shares, that one day will be sold & he'll get a return is loose change to him. In the meantime it's helping his mate, retain his dream.

The thought that there's a calculated end game that's years down the line & it's stopping Kenwright offloading the club as it's not his call, actually excuses Kenwright if you think about it.................(might be time to back peddle mate )

 

[davek]

Not for 7 years without a sniff of a profit I don't ,no. Cash has to be worked, share investments are generally short to medium term.

In your scenario they're sat there waiting for some mythical state funded handout, that could take years to arrive, years to develop & years to build. Sorry I just don't buy that at all.

More likely imo, is that there's little pressure being put on Kenwright to sell the club, as the ulitmate owner of the equity doesn't really give a **** about such a paltry figure. You're talking about a man who paid his missus a £1BN bonus a few years back (tax scam) £9m sat in EFC shares, that one day will be sold & he'll get a return is loose change to him. In the meantime it's helping his mate, retain his dream.

The thought that there's a calculated end game that's years down the line & it's stopping Kenwright offloading the club as it's not his call, actually excuses Kenwright if you think about it.................(might be time to back peddle mate )

First of all, why move your money away from an organisation that generates £80M revenue and in which you have a substantial/dominant say in how that organisation works for £7M or so, one that can be cashed in for twice that amount in an instant if there was a will to sell at that price and probably quadrupled in the near future with some other mugs taking the heavy lifting on a stadium build? Would he (Earl/whoever) have earned more in interest at the bank or through dividends at some other company? As said, the crazy world of PL football bucks the economic trend and actually club values are safer given the enormous media revenues.

Second, Green is wealthy and so is Earl. Buit if you think either of them and their families are in the habit of just leaving any potential profit lying around rather than hoovering it up you're mistaken. They commodify everything and see all things as material objects that need to be crushed into the commercial mincer to maximise profits. That's just what they do. They are capitalists and make rational decisions on that basis. Waiting for more cash rather than taking less now is rational to them.

Third, why should Kenwright's handcuffing the club to those pirates excuse him from anything? His decision to make a pact with those spivs has shackled us. His fault for no investment; his fault for no stadium solution; his fault for bringing in people with no other motive than to hang around waiting for a big payout and using tv cash to maintain the 'asset' rather sell up to people with a good plan and financial muscle. His fault ultimately for wanting to cling onto power of 'his' football club. And that's why he's in that poll above.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

First of all, why move your money away from an organisation that generates £80M revenue and in which you have a substantial/dominant say in how that organisation works for £7M or so, one that can be cashed in for twice that amount in an instant if there was a will to sell at that price and probably quadrupled in the near future with some other mugs taking the heavy lifting on a stadium build? Would he (Earl/whoever) have earned more in interest at the bank or through dividends at some other company? As said, the crazy world of PL football bucks the economic trend and actually club values are safer given the enormous media revenues.

Second, Green is wealthy and so is Earl. Buit if you think either of them and their families are in the habit of just leaving any potential profit lying around rather than hoovering it up you're mistaken. They commodify everything and see all things as material objects that need to be crushed into the commercial mincer to maximise profits. That's just what they do. They are capitalists and make rational decisions on that basis. Waiting for more cash rather than taking less now is rational to them.

Third, why should Kenwright's handcuffing the club to those pirates excuse him from anything? His decision to make a pact with those spivs has shackled us. His fault for no investment; his fault for no stadium solution; his fault for bringing in people with no other motive than to hang around waiting for a big payout and using tv cash to maintain the 'asset' rather sell up to people with a good plan and financial muscle. His fault ultimately for wanting to cling onto power of 'his' football club. And that's why he's in that poll above.

You don't make a return from turnover & Everton don't currently have any EBIDTA, so their investment has returned **** all so far. A share trader worth his salt could spin £9m into many times that amount in 7 years.

The exit strategy you're spinning as their end game, is nothing but pure conjecture, there's currently nothing on the table for EFC in respect of a funded stadium solution & given the current economic climate there's little likelyhood of there being in any sort of timeframe you care to mention. It's pie in the sky stuff. No businessman would sit on an investment ad infinitum in the 'hope' of some lucky windfall in an undefined timespan.

As for your second point, people 'sweat' their cash, they make it work for them, return on capital employed will be a key measure for the likes of Green. The higher the risk factor the greater annual ROCE he will look for. So far in 7 years he's had 0% from EFC. The thought that he's waiting for the above scenario to unfold as his pay day is nonsense, as he could double his cash tomorrow & re-invest it elsewhere & achieve a larger return than the 4 fold payout you suggest 'might' happen in god knows how many years time, with an air of certainty that just doesn't exist in your 'business plan'.

As for Kenwright, if you're correct & he's got no control, then of course he'd be at fault for allowing that scenario to happen, but you could no longer blame him directly for the decisions being made on an ongoing basis. But you want to have 'your cake & eat it' in that regard Dave.

 

[davek]

You don't make a return from turnover & Everton don't currently have any EBIDTA, so their investment has returned **** all so far. A share trader worth his salt could spin £9m into many times that amount in 7 years.

A) I never said they were making a return presently (that has been deferred to the point a sale)
B ) You can make £9M...you can lose £9M too. Best policy: sit on those shares at Everton and guarantee you at least double/triple your investment.

The exit strategy you're spinning as their end game, is nothing but pure conjecture, there's currently nothing on the table for EFC in respect of a funded stadium solution & given the current economic climate there's little likelyhood of there being in any sort of timeframe you care to mention. It's pie in the sky stuff. No businessman would sit on an investment ad infinitum in the 'hope' of some lucky windfall in an undefined timespan.

Well, we'll see on that one. At the moment a stadium scheme looks way off. But these things can change pretty quickly depending on macro-economic policy. If there's a big push for a lot of capital projects to boost demand in the building trade and associated industries in the run up to an election then a scheme could well materialise locally.

As for your second point, people 'sweat' their cash, they make it work for them, return on capital employed will be a key measure for the likes of Green. The higher the risk factor the greater annual ROCE he will look for. So far in 7 years he's had 0% from EFC. The thought that he's waiting for the above scenario to unfold as his pay day is nonsense, as he could double his cash tomorrow & re-invest it elsewhere & achieve a larger return than the 4 fold payout you suggest 'might' happen in god knows how many years time, with an air of certainty that just doesn't exist in your 'business plan'.

Look, I think you're going to have to turn this argument on its head and ask yourself if that option of maximising their cash lies elsewhere, then why are they still involved holding EFC shares? D'you see what I'm saying? The burden of explaining why they dont pull out and invest elsewhere lies with you (and if you think that 24% of Everton FC wouldn't be sold in an instant at the price they bought at - with interest thrown in - you're not thinking straight). Let them get that four fold payment. They are rational business men unencumbered by sentiment after all.

As for Kenwright, if you're correct & he's got no control, then of course he'd be at fault for allowing that scenario to happen, but you could no longer blame him directly for the decisions being made on an ongoing basis. But you want to have 'your cake & eat it' in that regard Dave.

I'm not doing that. It doesn't matter whether he sold us out last month of five years ago, the effects are still with us and he's still here providing a facade for it all.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Look, I think you're going to have to turn this argument on its head and ask yourself if that option of maximising their cash lies elsewhere, then why are they still involved holding EFC shares? D'you see what I'm saying? The burden of explaining why they dont pull out and invest elsewhere lies with you (and if you think that 24% of Everton FC wouldn't be sold in an instant at the price they bought at - with interest thrown in - you're not thinking straight). Let them get that four fold payment. They are rational business men unencumbered by sentiment after all.

Yes, & I gave you my thoughts as to why the 24% is still in the hands of Earl / Green, simply because they're not screaming for it back. Why aren't they screaming for it back? Because it's keeping Kenwright on his throne & the money is safe, abeit inert.

I never said nor suggested that they'd take what they put in plus interest, they'd be mad to, as it's worth more than that, so that's a moot point. As anyone with an ounce of common would pay what they paid 7 years ago plus interest for that slice of EFC.

 

[LITLEJOE]

dave is a great poster, keep it up mate

 

[teameverton]

Kirkby was the 'exit strategy'. Now they'll have to wait until some other private-public sector combo comes along to foot the bill of a stadium move in order for them to sell at a massive profit. Dont forget, this is an investment for men who are very, very rich. They can afford to ride out a couple of years holding Everton shares...an asset that costs them precisely nothing to keep ticking over...and is all the while gathering value along with the rest of the PL clubs who are continually inflated with tv cash.

You must be insane if you think Kenwright owns Everton for profit!

 

[Jeff Jones]

Houlding wins this hands down.

It's one thing to leave EFC for another club.

It's a step further to do a Barmby/Santa Claus and want to move to the RS.

But it's a whole different ball game to demanding extortionate rent for the ground and setting up ANOTHER FOOTBALL CLUB FFS when we refused to pay it. He has a lot to answer for - spawning a race of delusional spaceheads for starters.

That isn't quite what happened and most of that version plays into the hands of kopite spin.

Holding raised the rent by 150% between 1887 and 1889, and the Reds like to claim that Everton left without paying. Everton
left in 1992, three years later, after finding a much better - and cheaper - option. There's no truth in the myth that we didn't pay
the rent in those latter years.
LFC was set up by Houlding after we left, not before.

As for biggest traitor, I nominate Steve McManaman. Yes I know people like Rush, Carragher, and Fowler were Blues, but SM was
actually invited to Goodison. Asked why he didn't go to Everton, he answered 'They offered me more money'

I rest my case.

 

[somuchfun]

Landan Donavon.

 

[Chang Elephant]

dave is a great poster, keep it up mate

There are desperate people willing to waste time and multiple paragraphs defending the performance of the board. daveK recognises their problem and is willing to provide them with guidance.

 

[davek]

There are desperate people willing to waste time and multiple paragraphs defending the performance of the board. daveK recognises their problem and is willing to provide them with guidance.

Cheers mate. I do think of it as counseling.

 

[Goat]

I find it amusing that some people cant see the basic maths element in all this.

The Club was bought for 20m.

Regardless of who owns the shares, those shares are only ever gonna increase, unless something drastic happens, with regards to TV money/Prizemoney, which lets face it, is only gonna increase.

None of the Board Parasites have "invested" a single penny into the Club and all enjoy a free seat at Goodison every week, with no doubt free catering, free hobnobbing, free wine and other perks of destroying a multi-million pound Football Club.

Why would they sell?

Last estimates have the Club "For Sale" at £150m, not a bad return on anybodys "investment".

 

[davek]

I find it amusing that some people cant see the basic maths element in all this.

The Club was bought for 20m.

Regardless of who owns the shares, those shares are only ever gonna increase, unless something drastic happens, with regards to TV money/Prizemoney, which lets face it, is only gonna increase.

None of the Board Parasites have "invested" a single penny into the Club and all enjoy a free seat at Goodison every week, with no doubt free catering, free hobnobbing, free wine and other perks of destroying a multi-million pound Football Club.

Why would they sell?

Last estimates have the Club "For Sale" at £150m, not a bad return on anybodys "investment".

No mate, they're not in it for the money, apparently. They're rich enough and could make more money elsewhere. Their involvement in Everton is because they all love Bill and want him to get as many rounds of applause as he can.

 

[Goat]

No mate, they're not in it for the money, apparently. They're rich enough and could make more money elsewhere. Their involvement in Everton is because they all love Bill and want him to get as many rounds of applause as he can.

Yes of course they could make more elsewhere and guess what, THEY DO, "these Kenwrongers" assume that they are all sitting there watching their investment in Everton grow.

Nope, they are off making money in other places, like charging the Club they "own" interest on loans.

 

[LITLEJOE]

Yes of course they could make more elsewhere and guess what, THEY DO, "these Kenwrongers" assume that they are all sitting there watching their investment in Everton grow.

Nope, they are off making money in other places, like charging the Club they "own" interest on loans.

as if bill would do that.