Biggest Everton traitors

[Goat]

Jesus christ, of all the things I wouldn't have expected to have seen on here, John Houlding apologists is right up there.

Hes always the victim, it wasnt his fault.

 

[Chang Elephant]

It's all about context ATF

 

[Ihaters]

players come and go mate out of all our players Barmby is certainly the biggest traitor but lets be honest players dont have the power to stagnate or massively influence the direction of a club but owners/chairmans etc. sadly do and for those that blindly support Kenwright are imo just as guilty to the stagnation, its sad mate I love our fans think for the **** we put up with we deseve much much more than what we get especially for the younger supporters who havent seen anything to jump or celebrate about whilst them ********s win CL, fa cups etc. the clappers and kenwright are as bad as each other for our situation off the field.

That you see hard working, paying, genuine fans as bigger traitors than anyone on that list bar one is purely casting judgement on yourself.
You can make any stupid excuse for it that you like, but its simply mental and sad that you can warp your perspective that much.
Try looking from their perspective in which case, I suspect that the stagnation of being in 5th with a chance of CL as opposed to heady heights of a relegation battle which preceded him, is indeed terrible, but they find a way to be able to just get on with it. I guess seeing progress on the pitch as being better is indeed a traitorous viewpoint, but I can understand where they are coming from.

ps anyone who claps, or is apathetic or even supports Bill.. do not drag the club down, that is purely down to the board. The fans make literally no difference.

 

[Ihaters]

Hes always the victim, it wasnt his fault.

The origins of RAWK right there.. enough surely to condemn and yet ironically, maybe also save him from top spot, there are few things that give me a laugh quite like RAWK and without him we wouldn't have it.

 

[BoysInBlue]

Kenwright could become the reason Everton no longer exist ?

There will always be someone or something to sell or outsource before that happens, don't you worry about that.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

Rooney doesn't seem as bad now due to the transfer being a big success (for all parties, you could argue). But remember how we looked going into that 04/05 season after he left? Dis A Ray lads. Widely tipped for relegation by all and sundry and with good reason you would have to say. Walloped by Arsenal at home first game and it could all so easily have fallen to bits - We'd be burning Rooney in effigy to this day if the team had gone down that year.

What Moyes did to get a response from the team and qualify for the Champions League (FFS!) I have no idea - you'd have to say that part of it must have been a reaction to the Rooney circus leaving town, like fk you all I'm David Moyes and I'll show you how to manage a football club - we don't need that fat whoremonger. Regardless, it was a delicate time that could have irreversibly villified Rooney for all time but ended up going the other way.

 

[nsno-chris]

You're very naive. You think the major decisions are taken by Kenwright when you know that an offshore financial vehicle owns at least a quarter of the club's shares. That's not speculation, it's fact. What isn't a nailed on established fact is Green's involvement. But we know enough from anecdotal evidence from the man himself and Kenwright that there is an involvement/influence from Green in the recent history of the club (and I reject your dismissal in advance that I'm not allowed to bring in this, that and the other commentary from people who are closer to the game than you ever will be). I tell you what: if you had to place your house on whether Kenwright was making the major financial decisions at Everton or people like Earl and Green are, I bet you wouldn't touch the kenwright option with a very long ****ty stick.

The vote for Kirkby was a loaded question accompanied by a bulk of accompanying literature that invited only one response: Yes to leave. The fact it didn't get a landslide was amazing in and of itself. The Electoral Reform Society are just a commercial organisation and he who pays the piper calls the tune. Interesting too to not your blithe acceptance of Leahy and Tesco's right to exploit Everton.

Chris, you really should get off the high horse of yours about match attendance. I still do go on the odd few home games of the season when I can get there. I dont feel the need to defend my non-exemplary attendance record to you, though. Is it ok that I do that, or do I have to accept second class citizen status to you, Mr Everton?

Understand how business models work before making judgements. He's the Chairman, he's responsible x,y and z.....errrr no. Identify his roles and responsibilities and whats been agreed to his overall role. You're the naive one, you're so naive its unreal. You have no understanding of business, financial modelling yet are there to say everything that is ever done is wrong.

And again, including Leahy is just utter, utter, utter ridiculous and shows how much a negative, sad person you are; i know, from having regular meetings with a certain person who may, or may not have been named in this thread that; A.) Leahy put a lot more into that project than most, dedicating personal time and effort to gain approval from the BOD of Tesco, and B.) there was a lot more riding on the entire deal than EFC just getting a stadium, and i mean a lot more.

The point is Dave; I am not a fan of Kenwright, there have been plenty of mistakes that have been made over the past years; but want I can't do is let people sit there, spout utter balls about business, his role, what he should do, what the club should do, talk about annual reports like you have all graduated from Oxford with a PHD in Interantional Business, when in truth about .0.1% of people who slate BK couldn't run a corner shop.

 

[davek]

Understand how business models work before making judgements. He's the Chairman, he's responsible x,y and z.....errrr no. Identify his roles and responsibilities and whats been agreed to his overall role. You're the naive one, you're so naive its unreal. You have no understanding of business, financial modelling yet are there to say everything that is ever done is wrong.

And again, including Leahy is just utter, utter, utter ridiculous and shows how much a negative, sad person you are; i know, from having regular meetings with a certain person who may, or may not have been named in this thread that; A.) Leahy put a lot more into that project than most, dedicating personal time and effort to gain approval from the BOD of Tesco, and B.) there was a lot more riding on the entire deal than EFC just getting a stadium, and i mean a lot more.

The point is Dave; I am not a fan of Kenwright, there have been plenty of mistakes that have been made over the past years; but want I can't do is let people sit there, spout utter balls about business, his role, what he should do, what the club should do, talk about annual reports like you have all graduated from Oxford with a PHD in Interantional Business, when in truth about .0.1% of people who slate BK couldn't run a corner shop.

...and yet, with all their knowledge of business and 'financial modelling', here we are in a financial mess, failed stadium bids behind us, heavily in debt and with a credit rating so low we cant bring anyone of substance in through the doors in an all important transfer window that could and probably will decide our fate for seasons to come.

It's a good job none of us rank amateurs who couldn't run a corner shop are running Everton, eh Chris, otherwise it could make us uncompetitive and moribund.

Your hero worship of people who you may or may not know seven steps removed is clouding your judgment - you cant see the wood for the trees. They've obviously bamboozled you with their language of commerce and individual hard luck stories to an extent you cant actually recognise the gigantic pair of clown shoes this club has become off the pitch on their watch.

Now that's naive.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

You're very naive. You think the major decisions are taken by Kenwright when you know that an offshore financial vehicle owns at least a quarter of the club's shares. That's not speculation, it's fact. What isn't a nailed on established fact is Green's involvement. But we know enough from anecdotal evidence from the man himself and Kenwright that there is an involvement/influence from Green in the recent history of the club (and I reject your dismissal in advance that I'm not allowed to bring in this, that and the other commentary from people who are closer to the game than you ever will be). I tell you what: if you had to place your house on whether Kenwright was making the major financial decisions at Everton or people like Earl and Green are, I bet you wouldn't touch the kenwright option with a very long ****ty stick.

Dave, if you're right & Kenwright is merely the puppet of the real paymasters (whoever they may be) & they are calling the shots & making all of the major decisions. Then I assume that their interest is purely fiscal & generating a return is their core objective?

Earl (or whoever) came on board 7 years ago this year & they have yet to see 1p return on their stake holding. For you to be right on all counts, then why have these cold hearted business men not cashed in their chips & doubled or trebled their money by selling up & wandering off?

I'd have thought an exit strategy would be a priority to them, as according to you, they're running the business into the ground, so it must therefore be a depreciating asset? So I'm sure these cold blooded souls can see this happening & therefore would want out pronto?

 

[nsno-chris]

...and yet, with all their knowledge of business and 'financial modelling', here we are in a financial mess, failed stadium bids behind us, heavily in debt and with a credit rating so low we cant bring anyone of substance in through the doors in an all important transfer window that could and probably will decide our fate for seasons to come.

It's a good job none of us rank amateurs who couldn't run a corner shop are running Everton, eh Chris, otherwise it could make us uncompetitive and moribund.

Your hero worship of people who you may or may not know seven steps removed is clouding your judgment - you cant see the wood for the trees. They've obviously bamboozled you with their language of commerce and individual hard luck stories to an extent you cant actually recognise the gigantic pair of clown shoes this club has become off the pitch on their watch.

Now that's naive.

We have a debt, we are not heavily in debt; Manchester United are heavily in debt.

The problem with you is that anyone who defends the actions of the club, or puts a theory across as to why it has been done, is a fan of Kenwright. I argued in the BK/Borard thread about Finch Farm and why the club took the steps, and i get accused of being a BK lover because nobody could understand the reasoning behind the decision.

I can sit back and say that BK have made mistakes and I know he and the board have; the NTL deal and quite possibly the Kings Dock (even though there is a little bit more to that than meets the eye), but i can also comment, using experience and knowledge, on other decisions which people will moan at saying its wrong; when I know, given the circumstances, it would possibly the best thing to do.

You have no idea what went on in the transfer window unless you where sitting with DM all day; you can hear rumours and comments but the end of the day mate, you know f-all; just accept it.

Anyway, i'm not getting into BK/Board discussion. All i know is the to put him as a traitor is the sign of bitter, pathetic man

 

[davek]

We have a debt, we are not heavily in debt; Manchester United are heavily in debt.

The problem with you is that anyone who defends the actions of the club, or puts a theory across as to why it has been done, is a fan of Kenwright. I argued in the BK/Borard thread about Finch Farm and why the club took the steps, and i get accused of being a BK lover because nobody could understand the reasoning behind the decision.

I can sit back and say that BK have made mistakes and I know he and the board have; the NTL deal and quite possibly the Kings Dock (even though there is a little bit more to that than meets the eye), but i can also comment, using experience and knowledge, on other decisions which people will moan at saying its wrong; when I know, given the circumstances, it would possibly the best thing to do.

You have no idea what went on in the transfer window unless you where sitting with DM all day; you can hear rumours and comments but the end of the day mate, you know f-all; just accept it.

Anyway, i'm not getting into BK/Board discussion. All i know is the to put him as a traitor is the sign of bitter, pathetic man

Chris, reading between the lines, it sounds like you have more of an issue with being labelled a defender of Kenwright. But that's your problem really, and not something you should be bringing into this conversation. I'm not getting into that other than to say that you cant struggle against that labelling when you're quite obviously of the opinion that Kenwright - though acknowledging his making a few mistakes (and you even qualify that) - is pretty much safe from criticism and that he shouldn't shoulder the responsibility for what's going on at the club. That's a ridiculous position to hold. He may not be in executive control, but all the major decisions have been taken by him (including the ultimately disastrous one to pull close to the club outsiders who are nothing but a dead hand resting on it).

By the way, all your talk about how you know the real stuff of what's going on because you're business savvy, and your experience of running organisations allows you special insight into the true value of decisions made by the club - you're having a laugh aren't you? Do you really think that guff carries weight? You're struggling against the experience of 13 years of utter failure to hit major targets by this club and you're trying to tell us that the feller behind us pissing down our legs isn't really there and it's just raining.

 

[tomm1245]

HK, love the guy but ruined my childhood............and that RS team for getting us banned!!!!

 

[davek]

Dave, if you're right & Kenwright is merely the puppet of the real paymasters (whoever they may be) & they are calling the shots & making all of the major decisions. Then I assume that their interest is purely fiscal & generating a return is their core objective?

Earl (or whoever) came on board 7 years ago this year & they have yet to see 1p return on their stake holding. For you to be right on all counts, then why have these cold hearted business men not cashed in their chips & doubled or trebled their money by selling up & wandering off?

I'd have thought an exit strategy would be a priority to them, as according to you, they're running the business into the ground, so it must therefore be a depreciating asset? So I'm sure these cold blooded souls can see this happening & therefore would want out pronto?

Kirkby was the 'exit strategy'. Now they'll have to wait until some other private-public sector combo comes along to foot the bill of a stadium move in order for them to sell at a massive profit. Dont forget, this is an investment for men who are very, very rich. They can afford to ride out a couple of years holding Everton shares...an asset that costs them precisely nothing to keep ticking over...and is all the while gathering value along with the rest of the PL clubs who are continually inflated with tv cash.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Kirkby was the 'exit strategy'. Now they'll have to wait until some other private-public sector combo comes along to foot the bill of a stadium move in order for them to sell at a massive profit. Dont forget, this is an investment for men who are very, very rich. They can afford to ride out a couple of years holding Everton shares...an asset that costs them precisely nothing to keep ticking over...and is all the while gathering value along with the rest of the PL clubs who are continually inflated with tv cash.

Not much of strategy to gain a return that is it? Waiting indefintely on the off chance that there'll be some sort of funded stadium solution that will result in a bolstered balance sheet post completion?

Green is a billionaire, but the others, whilst wealthy men by most peoples standards, aren't in the super rich league. Green takes a business on to improve it & gain a return, the idea that he's arsed about "a bad night at the casino" level of cash sitting in EFC shares waiting for some undefined day to arise when he can fill his boots, is fanciful bollocks imo. He could take his cash out tomorrow & at least double his money.

You're shooting the wrong rabbit in Green imo, as whilst it may well be his cash that's keeping Kenwright in the chair, I don't think he's calling the shots & I think it's still Kenwrights call whether they sell or not. Don't forget that Kenwright & Woods own 44% between them & Earl / Green's stake is only 23%. It makes a nice tale, but I think Greens involvement is overblown in some quarters.

 

[davek]

Not much of strategy to gain a return that is it? Waiting indefintely on the off chance that there'll be some sort of funded stadium solution that will result in a bolstered balance sheet post completion?

Green is a billionaire, but the others, whilst wealthy men by most peoples standards, aren't in the super rich league. Green takes a business on to improve it & gain a return, the idea that he's arsed about "a bad night at the casino" level of cash sitting in EFC shares waiting for some undefined day to arise when he can fill his boots, is fanciful bollocks imo. He could take his cash out tomorrow & at least double his money.

You're shooting the wrong rabbit in Green imo, as whilst it may well be his cash that's keeping Kenwright in the chair, I don't think he's calling the shots & I think it's still Kenwrights call whether they sell or not. Don't forget that Kenwright & Woods own 44% between them & Earl / Green's stake is only 23%. It makes a nice tale, but I think Greens involvement is overblown in some quarters.

Do you think people like Earl (if he actually owns what's in BCR Sports) dont have a portfolio of shares and assets they sit on? Shares in a football club in the PL - whilst the crazy tv revenues are still knocking about - are safe as houses. As for Green, you either accept or dont accept the notion he's behind the scenes pulling the strings. There's enough circumstantial evidence to support it, though not a smoking gun.