2025/26 David Moyes

[Saint Domingo]

A lot of what you say here, I agree with. I could vault you, but your opinion (which mirrored mine) was that about 10th and 55-ish points would represent an acceptable season. I'm not flip-flopping from that and I don't see any reason why anyone should - the league is played over 38 games.

If we drop a place or two from 10th, I'd be a bit disappointed, but it wouldn't constitute anything like a sackable offence. Equally I don't think we should be throwing new contracts about if he gets 8th.

Europe was not a minimum requirement this season and just because we are close to it now shouldn't mean a rewriting of history to suggest it was always the standard that was the lowest acceptable outcome this season.

With 5 games to go, we are more or less where a lot of us thought we'd be - midtable with a chance of Europe if things go well and within reach of 12th-13th if we have a poor finish to the season.

The only thing I think is potentially unacceptable about the season is the use of the young players - if we get Europe, you can justify it by saying he's fast-tracked us slightly and done that by relying on more proven players. If we were to finish in the region of 12th or so, I'd consider the lack of minutes for Dibling and Rohl in particular to be a fairly major negative for the season.

Very sensible post.

Next season will be interesting with the use of the young players. If Rohl Dibling Alcaraz continue to receive minimal minutes whilst players we know are leaving the club in Gueye and McNeil keep making the 11 then there has to be some questions around what was the point in even buying them.

 

[Marcus Kendall]

We’re currently 1 point off our total for that season without the deduction.

Thanks Mike. So if we finish the season with a whimper it'll be pretty much a Dyche level season points wise. Doesn't sound so impressive when you think of it that way does it

 

[KevMirallas]

Moyes is top of the pyramid mate, clearly, nobody comes in without his say so.

He gets the plaudits and the criticism for all transfers - the DOF model he doesn't like was legged - one thing we can say under Moyes is there's no more tedious portioning of transfer responsibility.

Logically I know that this is correct, but I still can’t reconcile that idea with the actual implementation of the players bought. And I don’t mean that to absolve Moyes of culpability, because at the end of the day he’s the one training the players, improving the players and selecting the players for games.

I felt last summer there was still a club to manager disconnect, and even if Moyes was the deciding vote there was clearly still pressure on him to go a certain way (young, unproven, high resale). Evidently last summer we had a foot in each camp only for the manager to totally disregard one of the camps once the games started. If that happens again then the manager will need to be changed.

Bearing that in mind, if we finish out of the top ten, having been eliminated from the only two competitions we stand a chance winning (or at least reaching Wembley in), and on the back of a season with two more derby defeats and home form that's little short of a disgrace, then how can anyone say this has been anything other than a massively disappointing first full season of Moyes being back here?

To declare such a scenario as anything other than failure is absurd.

For me, only European qualification can change the perception of viewing this season from one of failure to one of progress. Certainly, if we fall out of the top half to where we've been is a sackable offence.

Of course, that's why right now and for the last week or so we've seen Moyes' mates and media flutters out in force trying to strongarm him over the line for a new contract...they know it's far from impressive and he needs their pressure on the board to keep him in situ of we dont get Europe.

It would be a disappointment for the season to fade away, for sure. A wasted opportunity, and one from which we would have little to show. The improvement in Garner and addition of KDH would be about it, though easily countered by our best and most important young player being crippled by injury to an alarming degree.

But given where we’ve come from and what the last five years have been, I can forgive one of these seasons. I appreciate not everyone will feel the same, but I personally feel Moyes gets one middling, non-threatening gap-fill of a season. I don’t think a 12th place finish, which is absolute worst case scenario from here, is a hanging offence.

Which is why this summer is so critical. My mind will be made up within a few months of next season, as at that point we’ll be able to see what the plan truly is under Moyes. Are we trying to create something sustainable which could grow to become great, or is it a year-by-year proposition with a lower ceiling and marginally higher floor? He’ll need to adapt for it to be the former.

 

[MikeH72]

Thanks Mike. So if we finish the season with a whimper it'll be pretty much a Dyche level season points wise. Doesn't sound so impressive when you think of it that way does it

Dyche was tracking for 34 points last season and 42 points in his half a season 22/23 so I would say that the points deduction season was a weird anomaly outlier personally. If we’d had a Dyche level season when you look at his career track record we’d be sitting around somewhere between Leeds and Forest right now. But yes, obviously we will beat 48 points this season.

 

[ToffeeScot]

A big worry for me is the disconnect between Moyes and what I think our transfer policy is going to look like moving forward. He will get some of his established signings like KDH etc., but the other half will continue to be Dibling / Aznou for the future signings which he just will not utilise. That's where he lacks hugely in terms of modern managers. Iraola will play them, Hurzeler will play them etc.

 

[Marcus Kendall]

Dyche was tracking for 34 points last season and 42 points in his half a season 22/23 so I would say that the points deduction season was a weird anomaly outlier personally. If we’d had a Dyche level season when you look at his career track record we’d be sitting around somewhere between Leeds and Forest right now. But yes, obviously we will beat 48 points this season.

Fair assessment. The general average is the yardstick not an outlier season. So this season we've hopefully created a new base standard to be improved upon

 

[Swartzy]

I want to see our Transfer targets for the Summer and then I'll make my decision..

We can't mess up 2 windows.

 

[John from Bootle]

Why do people assume the league table is lineal? And that points totals and position in one season are automatically directly comparable to other seasons?

This season has been a world away from Dyche's full season. For a start, this league is much stronger. The bottom 3 that season finished with a combined points total of 66. The bottom three currently, with 5 games to play, have 68 points between them. Spurs' current points total would have them probably needing 2 points that season.

Personally, I've just been well happy to get to post-easter and Europe still be a possibility. It's a world away from anything under Dyche, Benitez or Lampard. No doubt somebody will come along and ridicule me for being happy with how it's gone, because it's not NSNO enough, but all I can say to that is; I'm sad you can't enjoy even just having a bit of hope in April after the utter ****show we've been through in recent years.

 

[Lanolin]

Why do people assume the league table is lineal? And that points totals and position in one season are automatically directly comparable to other seasons?

This season has been a world away from Dyche's full season. For a start, this league is much stronger. The bottom 3 that season finished with a combined points total of 66. The bottom three currently, with 5 games to play, have 68 points between them. Spurs' current points total would have them probably needing 2 points that season.

Personally, I've just been well happy to get to post-easter and Europe still be a possibility. It's a world away from anything under Dyche, Benitez or Lampard. No doubt somebody will come along and ridicule me for being happy with how it's gone, because it's not NSNO enough, but all I can say to that is; I'm sad you can't enjoy even just having a bit of hope in April after the utter ****show we've been through in recent years.

Positions are comparable because that's what measures where you are in relation to your competitors, which is ultimately what matters. Getting less points but being above more of your competitors is obviously a good thing, and the same is true in reverse. Points aren't comparable at all, it's totally pointless looking at that type of thing because it just doesn't tell you anything at all, it's generally only ever used by people who are desperate to make a specific point and have no other way to do it (ie Martinez got 72 points so did a better job than Moyes).

I agree on your final paragraph, it's nice to have had a worry free season, there have been some good high points (the away record is excellent, winning at Old Trafford was great etc) and there's still a possibility of us qualifying for Europe which would be genuine progress and an achievement for us in relative terms, there's nothing wrong with being happy with that.

 

[Marcus Kendall]

A big worry for me is the disconnect between Moyes and what I think our transfer policy is going to look like moving forward. He will get some of his established signings like KDH etc., but the other half will continue to be Dibling / Aznou for the future signings which he just will not utilise. That's where he lacks hugely in terms of modern managers. Iraola will play them, Hurzeler will play them etc.

A less risk adverse manager in other words

 

[hallamblue]

Very sensible post.

Next season will be interesting with the use of the young players. If Rohl Dibling Alcaraz continue to receive minimal minutes whilst players we know are leaving the club in Gueye and McNeil keep making the 11 then there has to be some questions around what was the point in even buying them.

It could be bad on 2 fronts. If we buy new young players (if they'll come which I doubt) and they are unused then we have a very small squad and then he'll throw them in only in emergencies which puts added pressure on them. If we buy new older players, his MO, then in 2 or 3 years we'll have a load of players with no value, and a load of young players who've never played, also with no value. This is how clubs like Leicester and West Ham have ended up in a massive financial hole. We really do need to get our strategy sorted out, or the medium term could look bleak, and we don't want to go back there again so soon.

 

[Cjplennon]

Very sensible post.

Next season will be interesting with the use of the young players. If Rohl Dibling Alcaraz continue to receive minimal minutes whilst players we know are leaving the club in Gueye and McNeil keep making the 11 then there has to be some questions around what was the point in even buying them.

Well I think if you are a young player and you get an opportunity you have to shine. I cant remeber any team who puts on youth that is worse than the experience players unless forced to. There are no easy routes in the PL. If you get 20 mins you have to come on and do well, if you come on and are rubbish or show that you are not ready for tis level or expectation then you dont get another chance easily.
Maybe if we have cup runs or some other games they get more chances. But for us when we were a stone throw from going down over many seasons its always your strongest foot forward.
You can only trust in youth when you have qualitu flooding through the system and we definitely do not have that.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Well I think if you are a young player and you get an opportunity you have to shine. I cant remeber any team who puts on youth that is worse than the experience players unless forced to. There are no easy routes in the PL. If you get 20 mins you have to come on and do well, if you come on and are rubbish or show that you are not ready for tis level or expectation then you dont get another chance easily.
Maybe if we have cup runs or some other games they get more chances. But for us when we were a stone throw from going down over many seasons its always your strongest foot forward.
You can only trust in youth when you have qualitu flooding through the system and we definitely do not have that.

Judging from what Iroegbunam Armstrong Alcaraz and Rohl have shown this season there is zero reason why 37 year old Idrissa Gueye is getting 101 minutes in a derby match. Zero.

If McNeil had been sold in January as was the intention of the club, our options would have been George and Dibling. Palace’s inbox doesn’t get monitored correctly and all of a sudden through no action of our own McNeil is back with us and these two are suddenly not good enough to start games again?

There’s no logic to it, especially when you see McNeil make an error that was absolutely catastrophic for us.

 

[davek]

A lot of what you say here, I agree with. I could vault you, but your opinion (which mirrored mine) was that about 10th and 55-ish points would represent an acceptable season. I'm not flip-flopping from that and I don't see any reason why anyone should - the league is played over 38 games.

If we drop a place or two from 10th, I'd be a bit disappointed, but it wouldn't constitute anything like a sackable offence. Equally I don't think we should be throwing new contracts about if he gets 8th.

Europe was not a minimum requirement this season and just because we are close to it now shouldn't mean a rewriting of history to suggest it was always the standard that was the lowest acceptable outcome this season.

With 5 games to go, we are more or less where a lot of us thought we'd be - midtable with a chance of Europe if things go well and within reach of 12th-13th if we have a poor finish to the season.

The only thing I think is potentially unacceptable about the season is the use of the young players - if we get Europe, you can justify it by saying he's fast-tracked us slightly and done that by relying on more proven players. If we were to finish in the region of 12th or so, I'd consider the lack of minutes for Dibling and Rohl in particular to be a fairly major negative for the season.

To be clear, I haven't shifted my position on a top half finish since I stated that if we get it I can see how Moyes would get to stay on.

I've said that if we finish bottom half though that there's no way TFG can reward that with a new contract. I've stated that throughout.

That's because we've seen a lot of cash spent and if Moyes has only shifted the dial by 2 or 3 places on what we've had in the last two seasons in terms of where our points total would have / did get us position-wise then that's failure.

Personally I'd hope under those circumstances TFG would not just pass on a new contract for him with 12 months left on his current contract, I'd hope that they cut the Gordian Knot by sacking him and just get one of the very good managers who'll become available this summer and take advantage of that availability. That's what a well run, efficient club governs like...

....this is Everton though, so I'm sure that even if we finish bottom half those in charge will bend to the Moyes-friendly fluffers in the media and take the easy way out and just decide to keep the mediocre plate spinning exercise going with an extension to take him to the summer of 2028.

 

[davek]

Judging from what Iroegbunam Armstrong Alcaraz and Rohl have shown this season there is zero reason why 37 year old Idrissa Gueye is getting 101 minutes in a derby match. Zero.

If McNeil had been sold in January as was the intention of the club, our options would have been George and Dibling. Palace’s inbox doesn’t get monitored correctly and all of a sudden through no action of our own McNeil is back with us and these two are suddenly not good enough to start games again?

There’s no logic to it, especially when you see McNeil make an error that was absolutely catastrophic for us.

It's a catastrophic error of judgment to play Gueye now that we have a player like Iroegbunam to come in and do better.

But as I've said loads of times: Moyes chooses his teams politically - what is the best decision to make to secure him in the dressing room - so he plays older pros to makes sure any dissent is crushed.