The Spurs situation and Everton

[GoldenToffee]

They wanted to leave the Premier League a few years ago. Perhaps on May 24th we can help that become a reality?

That's been all too early forgotten about by everybody. Disgusting co-conspirators of the European 'Super League', perfectly happy to see the Premier League and the rest of its teams crumble into insignificance as they had pound signs in their eyes!

Got away with it scot-free too.

 

[GoldenToffee]

They could genuinely be sharing a division with the mighty Lincoln City Football Club next season if they're not careful.

 

[NeilMorepies]

What lesson can be learned?

Perhaps don’t get rid of a perfectly successful manager because of “ambition” and “style of play”, replace him with a revolving door of sexy but flawed flavour of the month types who dismantle the previous “functional” squad and spend hundreds of millions on show ponies with no fight, which gets the club into financial trouble to the point they struggle to afford to rectify their previous mistakes.

Also see West Ham, Man Utd, Notts Forest and Everton.

 

[davek]

You could be right but I think there’s slightly more chance of a relegation scrap forging a stronger bond between the fans and Everton Stadium. The streets around the ground would look amazing in blue smoke.

Nah... the fans make the club, not the stadium. Scousers are angry. We love to get riled up and would be there in a heartbeat to support the club.

The fanbase is changing. Social engineering going on now at this club. I know that'll take a while to fully make itself felt but we're in transition and we're also under the dominance of corporate organisations that will not easily bend to handing over that stadium for fans to own and feel it's theirs to defend. We see that all the time with the lack of objects of our identity denied to us and the heavy stewarding and policing on occasion.

It cant be stressed enough that this isn't the Everton of old. The Everton where things got done on a nod and a wink and a lot of latitude offered by the club owners - some of whom are locals or were local and retained a fan-outlook or at least knowledge of what was required to dig in and get fans on board in a struggle. That's all left behind at Goodison and we now have a stadium company + absent major shareholders who really couldn't give a flying one about all that.

Make no mistake: if we had a relegation struggle in the years ahead we'd be in a lot of trouble.

I agree Dave. There is definitely still a risk of falling into relegation battles again next season and there has been signs of that relegation form at times this season particularly at home were we recently had 1 win in 3 months. Moyes has the experience to ensure that doesn't happen again. There hasn't been anywhere near enough building gone on yet, It is going to take time and a few windows to do that. Not sure if that means that Moyes is safe for another season but there is definitely a risk in taking things for granted. It has been 1 season out of the last 4.

Not that i want him for another season mind but i can see the reasoning in being cautious. It has been nice having a season with no relegation fears and even an outside chance of qualifying for Europe. Definitely not the time to get cocky though.

As for Spurs i would laugh my head off if they went down after all the crap we have been through. Nobody pitied us, they just laughed at us.

Well said mate. Agree with that. Moyes staying would ensure we do what we've done since the early 1950s, I suppose. His only selling point IMO.

 

[trueblue84]

The fanbase is changing. Social engineering going on now at this club. I know that'll take a while to fully make itself felt but we're in transition and we're also under the dominance of corporate organisations that will not easily bend to handing over that stadium for fans to own and feel it's theirs to defend. We see that all the time with the lack of objects of our identity denied to us and the heavy stewarding and policing on occasion.

It cant be stressed enough that this isn't the Everton of old. The Everton where things got done on a nod and a wink and a lot of latitude offered by the club owners - some of whom are locals or were local and retained a fan-outlook or at least knowledge of what was required to dig in and get fans on board in a struggle. That's all left behind at Goodison and we now have a stadium company + absent major shareholders who really couldn't give a flying one about all that.

Make no mistake: if we had a relegation struggle in the years ahead we'd be in a lot of trouble.




Well said mate. Agree with that. Moyes staying would ensure we do what we've done since the early 1950s, I suppose. His only selling point IMO.

I disagree. It's a Scouse thing as much as it is an Everton thing. The club could try to change that (I don't think they are, tbh) but it is part of the city's culture so won't change because of a football club.

 

[davek]

I disagree. It's a Scouse thing as much as it is an Everton thing. The club could try to change that (I don't think they are, tbh) but it is part of the city's culture so won't change because of a football club.

There's scouse and there's posh scouse. We'll be in transition away from the former to the latter. Less Kirkdale and more Birkdale, as the saying goes.

 

[W84 Dum Freeze]

Have they focused too much on corporate activity and the stadium?

They need the equivalent of the blue toffee donut to keep them in their seats.

Coq au vin Bagels perhaps ???

 

[Simon Buttle]

For me the lesson would be don't manage/run the club from the boardroom. We did it under Moshiri, West Ham have done it under Sullivan, they did it under Levy. If you hire Managers/head coaches/Directors of Football ie specialists in a certain role, don't hire them if you are not going to let them do their jobs and you as owner/chairman are just going to do your own thing anyway. It's only ever going to lead to a slippery slope imo.

 

[Bedfordblue]

Phil Hay writing for The Athletic leads with:

‘Will Spurs loss lead to most stunning relegation in EPL history?’

Excuse me?

Why is the chance of spurs getting relegated such a drama?
People of a certain vintage will recall the EPL years with Pleat, Gross and Ozzie O, not to mention they were Div2 in 78.

The short termism in the press is ridiculous.
It felt like they were licking their collective lips at the prospect of us getting relegated and it certainly didn’t feel like there were any in shock or in anyway lamenting the notion.

 

[Lanolin]

I think people have gone overboard talking about all the supposed reasons for it happening at Spurs to be honest. I think it's just one of those things, other than the very best anyone can find themselves dragged into a relegation battle if things don't go their way and Spurs having a couple of years of bad injuries allied to some new signings not working out has meant that it's happened to them. I think it's too easy to start saying it was always going to happen and is because of X, Y and Z. Realistically not too many people were calling this a couple of years ago so it's certainly hindsight from lots of commenters who are now suggesting this was the natural endgame for way they've gone about things.

I would imagine that up until now it's seemed like an abstract concept to their fans, sort of vaguely possible but not something they've thought could really happen. It may be that they rally the same we did now that it's become a far more tangible thing. I know there were lots of our fans who were convinced the players just weren't trying hard enough for a long time, before they finally realised we genuinely were in trouble and most neutrals weren't actually surprised.

 

[Gilbert..]

For me the lesson would be don't manage/run the club from the boardroom. We did it under Moshiri, West Ham have done it under Sullivan, they did it under Levy. If you hire Managers/head coaches/Directors of Football ie specialists in a certain role, don't hire them if you are not going to let them do their jobs and you as owner/chairman are just going to do your own thing anyway. It's only ever going to lead to a slippery slope imo.

Forest is a powder keg waiting to go, If it hasnt already, with Edu being told to stay away from the club.
Spurs at the moment look a godsend for the other clubs down there right now.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Phil Hay writing for The Athletic leads with:

‘Will Spurs loss lead to most stunning relegation in EPL history?’

Excuse me?

Why is the chance of spurs getting relagated such a drama?
People of a certain vintage will recall the EPL years with Pleat, Gross and Ozzie O, not to mention they were Div2 in 78.

The short termism in the press is ridiculous.
It felt like they were licking their collective lips at the prospect of us getting relegated and it certainly didn’t feel like there were any in shock or in anyway lamenting the notion.

Because they're talking about the PL specifically, and that was founded in '92.

Because it's funny also is my answer - a team that was very much for the super league as they are "elite" being close to relegation now is hilarious imo, hope it happens.

 

[Lanolin]

Phil Hay writing for The Athletic leads with:

‘Will Spurs loss lead to most stunning relegation in EPL history?’

Excuse me?

Why is the chance of spurs getting relagated such a drama?
People of a certain vintage will recall the EPL years with Pleat, Gross and Ozzie O, not to mention they were Div2 in 78.

The short termism in the press is ridiculous.
It felt like they were licking their collective lips at the prospect of us getting relegated and it certainly didn’t feel like there were any in shock or in anyway lamenting the notion.

They're in the knock out stages of the CL, won the Europa League last year, reached the CL final 7 years ago, and before last season hadn't finished outside the top 8 for 16 years (with 7 top 4 finishes in that time). It's undoubtedly a more shocking downfall than ours in a footballing context, if not a historical one.

 

[Bedfordblue]

I think people have gone overboard talking about all the supposed reasons for it happening at Spurs to be honest. I think it's just one of those things, other than the very best anyone can find themselves dragged into a relegation battle if things don't go their way and Spurs having a couple of years of bad injuries allied to some new signings not working out has meant that it's happened to them. I think it's too easy to start saying it was always going to happen and is because of X, Y and Z. Realistically not too many people were calling this a couple of years ago so it's certainly hindsight from lots of commenters who are now suggesting this was the natural endgame for way they've gone about things.

I would imagine that up until now it's seemed like an abstract concept to their fans, sort of vaguely possible but not something they've thought could really happen. It may be that they rally the same we did now that it's become a far more tangible thing. I know there were lots of our fans who were convinced the players just weren't trying hard enough for a long time, before they finally realised we genuinely were in trouble and most neutrals weren't actually surprised.

I see parallels with what happened to us under Moshiri, buying players rather than building a team, unfortunately we can out of money / hit a regulatory wall to spend our way out of it so the downward spiral after Edam head was hard to halt.
Whether spurs have the cash, the will to spend it and a dash of fortune with their managerial decisions will play out over the next season or two I guess.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Whether spurs have the cash, the will to spend it and a dash of fortune with their managerial decisions will play out over the next season or two I guess.

They're already off to a fantastic start, hiring a manager who failed to win with Juventus to save them from relegation. It just makes sense.