The CM conundrum

Zatara said:
I think we (as supporters) need to look at the balance.

KDH & Gana both naturally take up similar spaces as left sided players.

One being a presser and the other being a player reliant on technical on the ball ability and positioning.

Garner is a good all round player with heart who can play as a 6 or a right sided 8.

Alcaraz is a 10 or an 8 in a 433 who plays off the cuff, great on transition and, like Garner plays with heart.

Iroegbunam looks to be Gana-lite with little desire to sit and more interested to be a tackle machine.

Rohl looks like he could be special though has had an injury plagued career in a less physical and slower league:
www.transfermarkt.com

Merlin Röhl - Injury history

This is the injury history of Merlin Röhl from FC Everton. On this page injuries as well as suspensions.
www.transfermarkt.com www.transfermarkt.com


Based on the above's basic synopisis:

DM - Garner
RCM - Alcaraz
LCM - KDH or Gana

Iroegbunam to come off the bench if we need to add a tackler in the middle.

Rohl to be used sparingly and to be honest, even if he turns out to be good this season then we should move him on once he becomes permanent in the summer due to his injury record.

In this Moyes setup currently i'd have Gana, Garner with Alcaraz as 10.

But Moyes seems to need to play KDH and soon I think the same with Rohl as he paid close to £50mil for the pair.

That £50mil would have been FAR FAR FAR better spent on Elliot Anderson for example (who now is unsellable for Forest).
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Just to add to this, if we were able to rebuild the midfield next summer then at this time i'd go with:

KDH - Sell if we can get our money back
Rohl - Sell if we can get our money back
Iroegbunam - Squad player or sell
Gana - thanks for the memories
Garner - KEEP
Alcaraz - KEEP


Garner & Alcaraz the only 2 I particularly rate. I think Moyes really needs to overhaul the midfield.

He literally stated he would only sign "robust" players at the start of the summer...what is Rohl?
 

Zatara said:
Just to add to this, if we were able to rebuild the midfield next summer then at this time i'd go with:

KDH - Sell if we can get our money back
Rohl - Sell if we can get our money back
Iroegbunam - Squad player or sell
Gana - thanks for the memories
Garner - KEEP
Alcaraz - KEEP


Garner & Alcaraz the only 2 I particularly rate. I think Moyes really needs to overhaul the midfield.

He literally stated he would only sign "robust" players at the start of the summer...what is Rohl?
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Well we aren’t getting our money back for two players we just bought and Alcaraz isn’t staying past this year if he’s not playing regularly soon. In fact I’d bet he’s already got his agent sounding out loans.
 
TheBigIguana said:
Well we aren’t getting our money back for two players we just bought and Alcaraz isn’t staying past this year if he’s not playing regularly soon. In fact I’d bet he’s already got his agent sounding out loans.
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In summer it may well be that KDH has suitors & Rohl may have shown that hes a good player when fit.

I dont think its impossible we get our money back on them in the summer.

Of the 6 who are you actually happy with in the squad next season? For me, its purely Garner and Alcaraz.

The midfield is a mess.
 
Goat said:
We aint selling KDH or Rohl.

Stand on me.

I know the chuckle brothers above hate him, but hes been a good signing.

Rohl looks a good player and if he cant stay fit nobody would buy him.
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How has KDH been a "good signing" as an 'effective' 10 ?

If Rohl can show himself to be a good player and used sparingly this season i think we'd have someone give our money back. The injury record seems to show a lot of risk though.


Its just opinions...for the £48mil or whatever I think theyre mad signings.

I think we'd be better off taking that chunk of cash and signing one top CM.
 

We will struggle to work out what our best midfield setup is with Merlin, KDH, Charley, Garner etc until starting Gana every week is no longer sensible. He offers so much, but trying to play this new slightly more open and positive style…..it’s tricky. I don’t like the way the roles are set up so that he is usually the one to get the ball in space 25 yards out, and everyone behind the goal ducks.

Not saying he is an issue, or should be phased out, but having his particular traits as a guaranteed starter seems to mean at least one other MF is a square peg in a round hole, or we put Garner in his best position, forcing Gana into areas he’s not really built for.

AFCON will be what forces Moyes to really put players in the midfield roles they are best suited to. Hopefully they are all fit, and it clicks.
 
Have agonised over the Gana alteration a few times. We're set up different, we had Doucoure covering the most ground on the pitch out of both sides (and sometimes the total distance was significant between him and second), it meant Gana was working behind him floating like a butterfly stinging like a bee, hence his record turnovers and interceptions/tackles. He can't do that as effective now as the jab of the one-two punch combo (Doucoure) isn't there.
I've noticed two things, D-Hall has been trying to cover DM CM and AM all at the same time, and I think he's been encouraged to be this superman player, but it has drawn Gana and Garner in more narrow, it means with a quick break we get flanked through the middle because they're exposed out of position in a quick counter. We see evidence of this with a back line more comfortable sitting off the midfield and leaving space in behind. When the defence pushes up to squeeze up to the midfield they get awful nervous of the diagonal ball over the top (sand wedge shot) that exposes either fullback and suddenly we're in a sprinting competition without many sprinters. (Maybe this remedies slightly with the return of Branthwaite - but it's a concern our entire side rests on the running speed of one player!).
Moyes sounded out both Luiz and McGinn, he knows there's a job for a specialist there but we couldn't flip an entire squad in one window, no club can.
So we soldier on as best we can, we're lucky mr versatility (Garner) has stepped up so effective. We've got a bit of action and flair in the wide positions. The longer our strikers go the bigger the pressure builds and it becomes a mental hurdle that keeps growing. It's a shame we couldn't get a soft draw in the league cup and face a few lower sides to help settle in the new faces and get some feel-good results and goals happening.

Late and non existent pre seasons don't help new signings, alongside an ever earlier league start, so settling in seems a thing of the past.

midfield three for a bit needs trying, KDH Alcaraz Garner. KDH can't go rampaging up the field though, if Alcaraz aint working then shuffle the pack and rotate McNeil, Rohl, Dibling with Grealish and N'Diaye for those 3 support slots behind Beto. We need to find the blend that lets us get the ball to the feet of our best attackers without leaving us exposed and stretched to high up the pitch. We're not getting the right mix currently, we've seen flashes, (but you saw the plans) I hope Moyes can find the balance.
 
Zatara said:
In summer it may well be that KDH has suitors & Rohl may have shown that hes a good player when fit.

I dont think its impossible we get our money back on them in the summer.

Of the 6 who are you actually happy with in the squad next season? For me, its purely Garner and Alcaraz.

The midfield is a mess.
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There are not going to be suitors. Part of the problem with signing a player with the profile of Dewsbury-Hall is there isn’t really that option. It either works and you don’t want to sell him or when you do look to sell him everyone knows why and you take a loss.
 
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Depends on who we are playing and when.

Play them all.

Rotation starting and in game.

We need two quality right backs as a priority in the next window. Where we find them, that's the conundrum.
 
Honestly we’re playing 4-4-1-1 so it’s a midfield two. The player behind the striker presses up in a 4-4-2 shape and isn’t dropping off far enough in possession to really say they’re a midfielder. That person (KDH mostly) is more of an attacker than anything.

So to get to the point the midfield isn’t the problem. It’s the attackers and the fullbacks. The #10 position isn’t producing enough in the final third and the fullbacks offering zero creativity leaves a hole in what the wide areas can produce.
 
Rohl needs to be in there. He covers the ground better than any midfielder we have. I’m actually looking forward to seeing what we do when Gana goes to AFCON because whilst he’s in the 11 Moyes isn’t going to drop him for his experience.

The issue is that Gana Garner KDH is too one paced against the very best teams. Grealish and Ndiaye aren’t the quickest either, or the back 4 behind them, so we struggle to close down space and win the ball back.

Branthwaite in the back line, Rohl in midfield, Alcaraz and Dibling playing more often would help us become a more dynamic team that can racially compete with top sides away from home.
 

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