- Status
turner
I can be a friend to you
That's great, but they also need to track forward
No, this is you once again seeing what you want to see rather what somebody actually writes. I didn't say anything remotely like that and I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion either. It's not black or white, all or nothing, with us or against us, despite what some of you seem to think. I don't love or hate Dyche, I don't think he's incredible or abysmal as a manager, I think he's a limited manager working with a limited squad, simple as that.
Yes you keep
Saying this mate but I don’t see it I’m afraid. It’s easier to have a bit more of the ball and have a few more attacking situations when you’re playing weaker opposition, that’s pretty obvious.
How many times do our full backs go
Past our wide players?? How many times does one of the 2 midfielders get onto the box? How many times does doucoure go past DCL? How many times do our wide players go past DCL ???
John from Bootle
Player Valuation: £20m
There's been loads of times this season when our wide men have gotten beyond DCL. They normally end up putting a ball in and he's nowhere near it or is attacking it from a stationary position. It's not something you see when Beto gets on, and is a big part of the reason I've had it with Dom.
Yes, I keep saying it because it's true. If you don't see it then that says more about you I'm afraid. If you think all we ever do is park the bus then you're just wrong.
Do you understand what 2 formations we play with the ball and without it when Doucoure is number 10? Do you understand the role he plays in transitioning between the two formations? It's completely different to when McNeil plays there (like at Saints.)
Egil Olsen
Player Valuation: £8m
Most people probably agree that Everton's financial situation has limited their freedom of action, and has been a limiting factor. Could one have been better at identifying other players? Yes, for sure.
As for Potter, it is true that he took the club forward. Here he did have the support of the club, and a lot of expertise that helped him. In Hoghton's last season they finished in 17th place, while the two following seasons under Potter were 15th and 16th. Potter's last season came in 9th place. Before he flopped at Chelsea with almost unlimited funds.
When new owners arrive - hopefully with a concept, competence and capital, then Dyche is finished. Until then, I think Dyche is the right man to stop the rot. It's not pretty, but we land on our feet.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
Some of the tactics are dictated by the players available, I know you don’t believe this but it’s a logical fact. It starts right from the back.
You can’t play a high line if your defenders have no pace. Ours don’t have any pace. Therefore unless you want to be horrifically exposed you have to sit the back 4 deeper.
Once you sit the back 4 deeper a gap opens up to midfield. Now the options are you have CBs who step out to close the gap (our have no pace so can’t), or you bring your midfielders closer to the back 4.
That leaves you with the problem of how do you press the opposition? You ideally need pace upfront to make sure you can close the space before a defender can play it into the gap that’s now opened behind. We have no pace upfront.
So we vary between all the players sitting deep or most sitting deep ans the striker being isolated which is what we’ve been seeing. We can’t even effectively play on the counter because again we have no pace.
Dyche therefore has in my opinion tried to plug what holes we can with us sitting deep, retaining shape, and the pace of Doucoure is used to try and close off passing angles in the gap behind Calvert Lewin. It’s not great to watch though and Doucoure is not good on the ball so what few attackers we have do break down. On the flip side it retains defensive solidity and it means there is still a threat from set pieces, long ball, counters, crosses, and open play in transition.
You can keep battering Dyche to do something different but the reality of this puzzle is not going to change with the same group of players. If anything it’s got more difficult with Onana leaving and Garner injured as we have even less pace in midfield to close distances.
So what do you want him to do?
Play a high line and leave us open to opposition teams turning Tarkowski Ashley Young and Mykolenko with a simple high ball? We did this v Brighton first day and we know what happened there.
We could leave the defence where it is and play Ndiaye at 10 push the midfield up and take the risk that Mangala and Gueye in an two will shut anything down before someone can pick a pass into their number 10 which would be straight onto our back 4 with all the time in the world to pick a pass or have a shot?
We could leave the wide players upfront to be more effective on counter attacks and again have our two slow central midfielders cover the flanks, or better yet leave opposition wingers two on one v Young and Mykolenko. Bournemouth anyone?
Every time Dyche has moved away from sitting deep, midfield deep, Doucoure behind Calvert Lewin we’ve been battered because the same problems haven’t gone away. They’ll still be here for the next manager as well just as they were for Lampard and Benitez as well.
Until the new owners buy two quick fullbacks, a quick CB to go with Branthwaite, two quick central midfielders, and two quick wide players as a minimum, you can keep moaning about the tactics all you want, they’re not going to change or if they do it will be with worse results.
Ancelotti came to the same conclusion as soon as James was injured and whenever Doucoure wasn’t fit for him all sorts of teams just ran through us at Goodison.
It’s been a problem for years and hasn’t been solved by successive managers from the moment McCarthy got injured under Martinez. If not have no pace in your team you’re not going to be on the front foot and you’ll be sat deep if you want any chance of results. Lampard showed what happened if you try and go against this and don’t have the players to do it.
Oh so using an example against Southampton
championship fodder who’ve beaten us twice. Big words like transitioning this is Sean dyche we’re talking about.You don’t seem to grasp how playing weaker and stronger opponents work. I will just go of possession, against the worst sides we will have between 35 and 45% with the odd anomaly like 22% first half at home v Southamptons reserves.
And against the best sides we have 25 to 35.
Take a Brentford and Thomas Frank, I’ve heard some on here say he’s similar to dyche and he can be defensive at times, but look how he went after Chelsea yesterday at 2-0 down. Also they had 38% but at Villa and Utd they had over 50% and at home to Leicester they had 60% so that’s a manger that has a plan and can change tactics to suit an opponent.
John from Bootle
Player Valuation: £20m
Oh so using an example against Southampton
You don’t seem to grasp how playing weaker and stronger opponents work. I will just go of possession, against the worst sides we will have between 35 and 45% with the odd anomaly like 22% first have at home v Southamptons reserves.
And against the best sides we have 25 to 35.
Take a Brentford and Thomas Frank, I’ve heard some on here say he’s similar to dyche and he can’t be defensive at times, but look how he went after Chelsea yesterday at 2-0 down. Also they had 38% but at Villa and Utd they had over 50% and at home to Leicester they had 60% so that’s a manger that has a plan and can change tactics to suit an opponent.
Poor reply this tbh. Did I use the Southampton example to show how attacking we are? Nope, I used it to highlight that anybody who says we set up exactly the same way at Saints as we did against Arsenal is completely wide of the mark. The same people like to say we play the same way every single game. That's just one example of why they are wrong.
Is Dyche conservative? Is the Pope a Catholic?...
Just because he's conservative doesn't mean it's backs to wall, park the bus 38 times a season. You know who else has always been known a conservative manager? Jose Mourinho, I suppose he dragged Chelsea to all those league titles by just parking the bus 38 times a season? There's ways to be defensive without just camping out on the edge of your box y'know..
*cue some smart arse claiming I'm comparing Dyche to Jose.
Oh, and sorry for using "big words"
John from Bootle
Player Valuation: £20m
Well why didn’t he buy more pace then with the 100mil he’s spent.
Just another excuse and it’s boring,
So the new one is, the only reason we play This turgid brand of football is because we don’t have 4 fast defenders.
If he wanted to play a bit more expansive he could play Patterson , but he only brings him on when we’re 4-0 down.
Explains to me why we don’t playing a more attacking, aggressive game v 10 men Brentford for 55mins ????? What your excuse for him staying in shape and not going to attack a team at home With 10men
Arsenal = great team been challenging for the title the last 3 yearsPoor reply this tbh. Did I use the Southampton example to show how attacking we are? Nope, I used it to highlight that anybody who says we set up exactly the same way at Saints as we did against Arsenal is completely wide of the mark. The same people like to say we play the same way every single game. That's just one example of why they are wrong.
Is Dyche conservative? Is the Pope a Catholic?...
Just because he's conservative doesn't mean it backs to wall, park the bus 38 times a season. You know who else has always been known a conservative manager? Jose Mourinho, I suppose he dragged Chelsea to all those league titles by just parking the bus 38 times a season? There's ways to be defensive without just camping out on the edge of your box y'know..
*cue some smart arse claiming I'm comparing Dyche to Jose.
Oh, and sorry for using "big words"
Southampton = championship squad and one of the worst teams at this stage in prem history. Think that’s the end of that
You conveniently missed of the bit before that when I said some on here have said Frank is similar to dyche and can he defensive.How did I miss this little gem...
Rumours that when the takeover is finally made official that they want to offer Dyche a contract extension.
John from Bootle
Player Valuation: £20m
The end of it?
Not if you're one of the people claiming we played exactly the same way and set up exactly the same way against them both. Or claim that we never deviate from the one plan.
Once again, you're completely missing the point, but weirdly are admitting that we never set up the same way against them both, so are proving my point.
- Status
Welcome
Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.
Shop
