2024/25 Sean Dyche - Sacked

[smileychap]

Everybody has opinions mate , I think this side has underperformed this year . Im Not hating on the manager and I’m not saying he hasn’t worked under restrictions. however if you think this team is playing to its potential and you’re happy with what you’re Seeing then we disagree.

I was minded to be happy with the manager getting to the seasons end before he left , for me this year has made that very difficult and I suspect the new owners may think the same . If he wins a couple of the next few then obviously opinions may change but that feels unlikely .

It’s all about opinions isn’t it ?

Well yeah, everyone has one, that's the beauty of opinions

My point was to try and quantify how well Kev and Dyche are doing by looking at the cash table.

The points about style of play, relative success etc, agree. Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth all show what can be done when cash, mgt, playing stye, board direction etc are all aligned. They're probably spending similar or less, YET obviously out-performing us.

But it takes a while to build those principles and squads that are fully bought into them. Changing Manager's now is risky. End of Season when we're safe is the right time (IMHO!). But I understand your point as like many on here I'm not at the game regularly, and it's a different world if you're one of the thousands forking out for this weekly. Also the kind of impact the fella at Forest is having shows that short-term fixes are possible, but I worry about the age of our squadand personnel, and think we don't necessarily have players to play a freer-flowing style off togger well enough to avoid trouble. I'd rather be where we are than Saints (can't score) or Wolves (can't defend).

 

[chippy1722]

130k a week for an over-glorified athlete... Jesus wept.

We’ve paid much much worse players big money in recent times.

 

[chippy1722]

Can’t wait to see Wolves win their first corner under Perierra, and half this forum to moan how we didn’t take him over Lampard.

 

[smileychap]

Leicester, Wolves, Ipswich and Saints worse than us this year.
- plus palace may still wobble but have found their mojo for now. There could of course be bounces at Saints and Wolves...

Broja looks useful, proper target man for our world-class wider players to hit.

Game: there are two words that shouldn't be in the previous sentence. See if you can spot them... Go!

 

[Simon Buttle]

Can’t wait to see Wolves win their first corner under Perierra, and half this forum to moan how we didn’t take him over Lampard.

Id be astonished if that happens as they have 1 fit CB and Perierra is an awful manager and very little room too spend.

 

[Egil Olsen]

So basically you and @Egil Olsen are saying that if you have no
Money to buy top players you can only play like dyche to survive in the prem,
There’s no other way to do it. And if we give dyche 250mil this summer you will see an attacking team on the front foot trying to score goals and win football matches.

I actually think differently and if you gave dyche the Brighton or Bournemouth job he would have them playing like us in weeks.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I rate Doucoure as little as anyone on here but anyone with a brain can see that you can’t have an 11 of players without any pace and then expect to be able to defend effectively or win the ball back, let alone press high and force turnovers. When he’s out the team we’re left with slow midfielders trying to chase shadows and close gaps, we get dragged out of position and ran through.

It’s been an issue for a long time at Everton. Even under Moyes we tended to slower more technical players, and then following that we’ve had Barry Siggurdson Klaassen James Davies Allan Gomes Mangala Gueye. There’s not a yard of pace anywhere.

Martinez’s reign arguably never received from McCarthy’s injury problems. There was a player who could cover round and put it on the opposition. As soon as he was injured Barkley and Barry just got overran.

We need midfielders with technique on the ball and pace off it, not this either or situation we have now all the time. The answer isn’t to put McNeil or Ndiaye at 10, or move Docuoure back or whatever other variant we’ve tried.

The answer is to buy much better midfielders that don’t force you into picking a player with pace and no technique or a player with technique but no pace.

 

[blueboy72]

I rate Doucoure as little as anyone on here but anyone with a brain can see that you can’t have an 11 of players without any pace and then expect to be able to defend effectively or win the ball back, let alone press high and force turnovers. When he’s out the team we’re left with slow midfielders trying to chase shadows and close gaps, we get dragged out of position and ran through.

It’s been an issue for a long time at Everton. Even under Moyes we tended to slower more technical players, and then following that we’ve had Barry Siggurdson Klaassen James Davies Allan Gomes Mangala Gueye. There’s not a yard of pace anywhere.

Martinez’s reign arguably never received from McCarthy’s injury problems. There was a player who could cover round and put it on the opposition. As soon as he was injured Barkley and Barry just got overran.

We need midfielders with technique on the ball and pace off it, not this either or situation we have now all the time. The answer isn’t to put McNeil or Ndiaye at 10, or move Docuoure back or whatever other variant we’ve tried.

The answer is to buy much better midfielders that don’t force you into picking a player with pace and no technique or a player with technique but no pace.

Think we all know we need better players,
But we also need a progressive mananger, you can go an buy 2 brilliant pacy wingers, but what’s the point under this mananger who will have them in their own half the majority of the game, holding hands with the full back

 

[John from Bootle]

Think we all know we need better players,
But we also need a progressive mananger, you can go an buy 2 brilliant pacy wingers, but what’s the point under this mananger who will have them in their own half the majority of the game, holding hands with the full back

Tracking back for a winger is massively important.

Interesting to note Roy Keane's and Gary Neville's comments on Rashford and Garnacho yesterday.

I'm paraphrasing here, but it's pretty much what they said...

Roy Keane - "we played with some brilliant wide players, like Beckham and Giggs. They were brilliant going forward, but they also ran back. They had to run back, we wouldn't have tolerated it. Football would be great if it was all just about getting forward, but it's not!"


Gary Neville - " Look at the Man City team of recent years. De bruyne, Foden, Bernardo Silva, David Silva, all great, great players who offer a lot in attack, but they work(ed) like absolute dogs."

Gary Nevile - " I don't care if you're Ronaldo, Beckham, Giggs, Kanchelskis, you've still got to track back"

Roy Keane - "Our wide players under Ferguson had to track back or they wouldn't be in the team. Not only would the manager and coaches not accept it, but we, the players, wouldn't accept it."

 

[Egil Olsen]

So basically you and @Egil Olsen are saying that if you have no
Money to buy top players you can only play like dyche to survive in the prem,
There’s no other way to do it. And if we give dyche 250mil this summer you will see an attacking team on the front foot trying to score goals and win football matches.

I actually think differently and if you gave dyche the Brighton or Bournemouth job he would have them playing like us in weeks.

Not at all. I think what we are saying is that you have to play football based on the skills of your players compared to the opposition. What Everton have lacked is a long-term plan. Moshiri brought money, but there was no plan on how to manage this long-term to achieve success.

Expensive players were bought in, put on expensive salaries, but the problem was that they either had little resale potential, they had already peaked, or were simply mediocre. At the same time, we had absolutely no concept of how we wanted to play. So that we quickly got a very expensive and unbalanced squad. We hit an iceberg, and what we've been doing since then is plugging the holes in the ship. That's why Dyche is here.

Brighton have had a model that has worked for them for quite some time, and that is because the way they operate is independent of the manager.
Bournmouth made a rather controversial decision when they sacked Gary O'Neill based on data, and the way they wanted the club to develop in the future.
These clubs have a plan. Our plan is just to survive until new owners take over.

Dyche doesn't fit in at Brighton, nor Bournmouth. The same can be said of Ancelott. Because they have a clear concept, and had neither accepted the style of Dyche nor the money Ancelotti needs to create success.

However, Dyche fits into clubs where you have to stop the rot, and Ancelotti fits into clubs where the wallet is endless. Dyche is right for us right now, but Ancelotti was the work of a madman.

That is why Dyche is here. He hardly has money to spend on quality players, and a team that is neither close to playing Brighton's press bait football, nor Bournmouth's intense football which is mainly based on intense press and fast transitions.

 

[blueboy72]

Tracking back for a winger is massively important.

Interesting to note Roy Keane's and Gary Neville's comments on Rashford and Garnacho yesterday.

I'm paraphrasing here, but it's pretty much what they said...

Roy Keane - "we played with some brilliant wide players, like Beckham and Giggs. They were brilliant going forward, but they also ran back. They had to run back, we wouldn't have tolerated it. Football would be great if it was all just about getting forward, but it's not!"


Gary Neville - " Look at the Man City team of recent years. De bruyne, Foden, Bernardo Silva, David Silva, all great, great players who offer a lot in attack, but they work(ed) like absolute dogs."

Gary Nevile - " I don't care if you're Ronaldo, Beckham, Giggs, Kanchelskis, you've still got to track back"

Roy Keane - "Our wide players under Ferguson had to track back or they wouldn't be in the team. Not only would the manager and coaches not accept it, but we, the players, wouldn't accept it."

Ours don’t have to run back, because they don’t go forward. Big difference to players getting up and down the pitch to sitting back and parking the bus

 

[John from Bootle]

Ours don’t have to run back, because they don’t go forward. Big difference to players getting up and down the pitch to sitting back and parking the bus

You do know we don't always play the same way we did against Arsenal? We've rarely employed a low block in recent times, or parked the bus if you will.

Are you one of those that is adamant that we set up exactly the same way at Saints as we did at Arsenal? If you are, you're wrong, very very wrong.

 

[Lanolin]

Im not sure about that. I watch teams in this division and almost every single one of them i think to myself doucoure wouldnt get a game as he'd collapse and break down every decent attacking move as 99% of the time he cant trap a ball or weight a pass. If you've got that weak link in a chain replace it. He got relegated with watford and in 4 of his 5 years here we've been fighting above the trap door. Its not all down to him but when you struggle to do the basics you're pretty much tailor made for a Sean Dyche side as long as you seem to run hard. The clubs mentality and recruitment needs a complete overhaul. We've morphed into Burnley. Dyche grinning like a chesire cat at the weekend. We never had a single effort at goal. Take the point as we're desperate. Dont be proud that we offer nothing other than parking the bus.

Well that wasn't really what I was saying. My point was more that we could play without Doucoure and so theoretically play better football but it might not actually make us a better team. Believe me I've been slating Doucoure since a long time before it was trendy, I'm fully aware of his limitations, but I do accept that there's a possibility that his physicality and workrate might offer more to the team than somebody else with more technical ability in that role. I look forward to the day when we have a team of decent footballers who also have the physical attributes to do well at this level but I'm not sure that's something we have right now, so I do sort of see why we might try to play the way we do even if I don't like it.

 

[Egil Olsen]

I rate Doucoure as little as anyone on here but anyone with a brain can see that you can’t have an 11 of players without any pace and then expect to be able to defend effectively or win the ball back, let alone press high and force turnovers. When he’s out the team we’re left with slow midfielders trying to chase shadows and close gaps, we get dragged out of position and ran through.

It’s been an issue for a long time at Everton. Even under Moyes we tended to slower more technical players, and then following that we’ve had Barry Siggurdson Klaassen James Davies Allan Gomes Mangala Gueye. There’s not a yard of pace anywhere.

Martinez’s reign arguably never received from McCarthy’s injury problems. There was a player who could cover round and put it on the opposition. As soon as he was injured Barkley and Barry just got overran.

We need midfielders with technique on the ball and pace off it, not this either or situation we have now all the time. The answer isn’t to put McNeil or Ndiaye at 10, or move Docuoure back or whatever other variant we’ve tried.

The answer is to buy much better midfielders that don’t force you into picking a player with pace and no technique or a player with technique but no pace.

Everyone knows that speed is extremely important in football, and having players who are athletic. Why is this club unable to identify these players?

 

[blueboy72]

Not at all. I think what we are saying is that you have to play football based on the skills of your players compared to the opposition. What Everton have lacked is a long-term plan. Moshiri brought money, but there was no plan on how to manage this long-term to achieve success.

Expensive players were bought in, put on expensive salaries, but the problem was that they either had little resale potential, they had already peaked, or were simply mediocre. At the same time, we had absolutely no concept of how we wanted to play. So that we quickly got a very expensive and unbalanced squad. We hit an iceberg, and what we've been doing since then is plugging the holes in the ship. That's why Dyche is here.

Brighton have had a model that has worked for them for quite some time, and that is because the way they operate is independent of the manager.
Bournmouth made a rather controversial decision when they sacked Gary O'Neill based on data, and the way they wanted the club to develop in the future.
These clubs have a plan. Our plan is just to survive until new owners take over.

Dyche doesn't fit in at Brighton, nor Bournmouth. The same can be said of Ancelott. Because they have a clear concept, and had neither accepted the style of Dyche nor the money Ancelotti needs to create success.

However, Dyche fits into clubs where you have to stop the rot, and Ancelotti fits into clubs where the wallet is endless. Dyche is right for us right now, but Ancelotti was the work of a madman.

That is why Dyche is here. He hardly has money to spend on quality players, and a team that is neither close to playing Brighton's press bait football, nor Bournmouth's intense football which is mainly based on intense press and fast transitions.

He’s not the right man now,
Maybe he was 2 years ago, so after 2 years what’s his plan to move forward, improve players, coach players better, bring in some young players. What’s the plan mate??

Brighton had a similar manager in Houghton playing god awful football, finishing 17th. Potter game and changed things from a playing style straight away and started the ball rolling. We’ve spent a 100mil since dyche had been here