New Everton Owners: The Friedkin Group

[brieverton]

I really rate him and the job he's had to do here.

The question mark is for me at least - is he a DoF who can excel in these circumstances but without severe restrictions would struggle.

Almost like is he the equivalent of a Allardyce, Dyche good in adversity, but that's their limit

I would have the same concerns. I'm on the fence about him but for several reasons I think he'll be retained by TFG. Their record in working with DoFs at Roma has not been particularly stellar.

He can really only be judged in full when there is an opportunity to do the job with less constraints though I'd still prefer a cautious approach when spending.

I don't expect him to have huge input on the selection of the next manager, short of presenting a list of candidates to TFG. There is still influence enough in that though.

Where he has to show his worth or otherwise is in player recruitment and trading. If he gets that right and we move to a sustainable model, then he will win trust and greater scope in the job.

What he may also need is gravitas. I think lack of same is an issue more broadly for people in this role. Whilst they are very well paid, dealing with billionaires who run huge businesses of their own can be a daunting prospect for football people not skilled in mixing it up in a boardroom context. He has to be confident in his own judgement and back it up in front of very powerful, driven, successful, and results oriented people.

He will have to show his worth through the profit and loss figures on player trading. It's the Friedkins money and if he can't achieve that, first he'll be sidelined and then sacked.

 

[Marius57]

What does a DoF add to the club? I`d like to go back to the way it used to be and just have a manager that can oversee all the transfer work. It used to work fine back in the day and meant when things were going badly you didn`t have the argument on who`s fault it was we had so many bad players, manager or DoF.
It would be great to have to sack one person instead of 2.

If done properly and DOFs are able to work autonomously, it means managers are employed that fit the style of DOF within a long term vision.

And as managers tend to leave every few years, and most don’t stay very long, it should mean you don’t end up with a mish mash of players who are more suited to a specific managers style of play (because the dof makes the decision around players to fit the system).

Not one of our DOFs have been given an autonomous role, or been given the power to make managerial decisions. Which is why it’s been a total shambles.

 

[Curtis]

If done properly and DOFs are able to work autonomously, it means managers are employed that fit the style of DOF within a long term vision.

And as managers tend to leave every few years, and most don’t stay very long, it should mean you don’t end up with a mish mash of players who are more suited to a specific managers style of play (because the dof makes the decision around players to fit the system).

Not one of our DOFs have been given an autonomous role, or been given the power to make managerial decisions. Which is why it’s been a total shambles.

Like you stated we've never actually properly employed a director of football model where the DOF is primarily in control of realizing the vision of the club instead we get a muddled Frankenstein's monster version which just defeats the purpose of having a dof but felt representative with the shambolic nature of the moshiri years

 

[Lanolin]

If done properly and DOFs are able to work autonomously, it means managers are employed that fit the style of DOF within a long term vision.

And as managers tend to leave every few years, and most don’t stay very long, it should mean you don’t end up with a mish mash of players who are more suited to a specific managers style of play (because the dof makes the decision around players to fit the system).

Not one of our DOFs have been given an autonomous role, or been given the power to make managerial decisions. Which is why it’s been a total shambles.

I don't think it's quite that simple to be honest. I think the DoF role can vary massively from club to club, and I think a lot of what people (me included) think they do is probably not really accurate. I remember seeing an interview with Dan Ashworth for example, where he said he had no say in the managerial appointments they made at Brighton, which is something most people seem to think should be a key part of their job. There's also an argument that there's just as much churn in the DoF roles as there is is management, so you aren't necessarily getting this consistency that again people seem to take as a given.

I'm not saying the role doesn't have merit, just that I don't think it's necessarily quite what people often see it as.

 

[milks]

I don't think it's quite that simple to be honest. I think the DoF role can vary massively from club to club, and I think a lot of what people (me included) think they do is probably not really accurate. I remember seeing an interview with Dan Ashworth for example, where he said he had no say in the managerial appointments they made at Brighton, which is something most people seem to think should be a key part of their job. There's also an argument that there's just as much churn in the DoF roles as there is is management, so you aren't necessarily getting this consistency that again people seem to take as a given.

I'm not saying the role doesn't have merit, just that I don't think it's necessarily quite what people often see it as.

Ashworth is more of an Operations Director than a Football Director - overseeing the running and processes within the club. Interesting piece in The Athletic detailing why he got the boot from United. Jason Wilcox seems to be doing the football side of stuff there.

 

[Bedfordblue]

Ashworth is more of an Operations Director than a Football Director - overseeing the running and processes within the club. Interesting piece in The Athletic detailing why he got the boot from United. Jason Wilcox seems to be doing the football side of stuff there.

What’s the abridged scoop for those of us who don’t pay / cba fighting their firewall?

 

[milks]

What’s the abridged scoop for those of us who don’t pay / cba fighting their firewall?

tl;dr - Sir Jim didn't like him. Thought he didn't offer exciting enough options to replace Ten Hag. Feeling that Zirkzee was a data-driven transfer, thus Ashworth's fault. Wouldn't allow funds to outsource/expand the data & analytics network; felt this was Ashworth's job.

He won't be short of suitors; would be a great fit above Thelwell in the hierarchy at Everton. Imagine Arsenal will be all over him to replace Edu.

 

[Lanolin]

Ashworth is more of an Operations Director than a Football Director - overseeing the running and processes within the club. Interesting piece in The Athletic detailing why he got the boot from United. Jason Wilcox seems to be doing the football side of stuff there.

That's pretty much my case in point, showing that what the role entails is different from club to club. I think a lot of people see it as like a glorified head scout but I would say that operations director is probably quite analogous as a role outside of football in a lot of cases.

 

[Noble Savage]

Thelwell wouldn’t know a goal scorer if it fell from the sky and landed on his head.

Beto has the same relationship with a football. Bless him.

 

[Bedfordblue]

tl;dr - Sir Jim didn't like him. Thought he didn't offer exciting enough options to replace Ten Hag. Feeling that Zirkzee was a data-driven transfer, thus Ashworth's fault. Wouldn't allow funds to outsource/expand the data & analytics network; felt this was Ashworth's job.

He won't be short of suitors; would be a great fit above Thelwell in the hierarchy at Everton. Imagine Arsenal will be all over him to replace Edu.

A mate just sent me Simon Jordons take (yeah SJ - I know ) on Talk Gibberish….
Be interesting to see how he does wherever he lands next,

'Sancho for £75m was a disaster' - Why Jordan backs Ashworth exit

Manchester United’s decision to part with sporting director Dan Ashworth after just five months is the correct one. That’s according to Simon Jordan who gave his frank view about the 53-year-…

talksport.com

Personally I hope it isn’t here

 

[milks]

A mate just sent me Simon Jordons take (yeah SJ - I know ) on Talk Gibberish….
Be interesting to see how he does wherever he lands next,

'Sancho for £75m was a disaster' - Why Jordan backs Ashworth exit

Manchester United’s decision to part with sporting director Dan Ashworth after just five months is the correct one. That’s according to Simon Jordan who gave his frank view about the 53-year-…

talksport.com

Personally I hope it isn’t here

Not sure that Jordan is overtly negative about Ashworth here. More in agreement that if Radcliffe has decided he doesn't like him, there's no issue in moving on from him.

 

[Stuartisitc1878]

Ashworth could come in at much higher level, overseeing both us and Roma.

 

[CielosGrises]

A mate just sent me Simon Jordons take (yeah SJ - I know ) on Talk Gibberish….
Be interesting to see how he does wherever he lands next,

'Sancho for £75m was a disaster' - Why Jordan backs Ashworth exit

Manchester United’s decision to part with sporting director Dan Ashworth after just five months is the correct one. That’s according to Simon Jordan who gave his frank view about the 53-year-…

talksport.com

Personally I hope it isn’t here

Weird headline insinuating Ashworth had anything to do with Sancho - clickbait eh ?

He didn't hire Ten Hag and seems to be carrying the can for that too ?

Seems like they've paid a scapegoat in the end.

 

[Charro]

While I quite like some of the work Thelwell has done, if you asked me if I’d rather spend £25m for Beto to sit on the bench, or have Cannon sit on the bench, I know which I’d pick.

Tom cannon and Ellis simms were both sold that summer for PSR.

Pretty much anyone we could get anything for in the academy was up for sale.

We made around £15m on both and them and put down next to nothing in replacing them with Beto.

He’s been juggling stuff like this since he got here.

 

[Bedfordblue]

Not sure that Jordan is overtly negative about Ashworth here. More in agreement that if Radcliffe has decided he doesn't like him, there's no issue in moving on from him.

Yeah, it’s certainly a strange one given they paid compo to the horse punchers and had to wait out however many months gardening leave before employing him, only to bin him 6m later.
Interesting line that Eddie Howe was ‘diplomatically polite’ about him, but i guess that could mean anything from he didnt rate him, to he was good but left us in the lurch etc.

I think I’m less bothered about replacing Thewell as he seems more structures and process than anything else, which isn’t a bad thing. I’ve certainly joked on here before about he seems to have appointed a manger for just about every aspect of back of house operations.
Im not convinced a Dan Ashworth can do much more than / better than Thewell if that is the DoF role at Everton, i imagine the best data analysis people etc are reasonably well know in those circles and more than likely follow the best pay like most normal people.