6 + 2 Point Deductions

[WestStandLower]

Good times! Good times is winning stuff not just making up the numbers. Are Chelsea enjoying good times at the moment? Of course they're not.

Hey I remember the Div 2 days so compared to them days these days are joyous

Football isn’t just about winning trophies although that’s the ultimate aim and there is far more to it

 

[Tel001]

The league’s opened a bag of worms. The idea that teams might not know their fate after the final game of the season is absurd. Would the Prem do the same if an appeal could decide a title? Because that’s what will eventually happen. Would they present Liverpool or Arsenal the trophy, have all the fireworks and celebrations and then 2 weeks later confirm City’s appeal was successful and they are in fact champions? Of course they wouldn’t.

I feel for Dyche and the players. They suffer for the owner and former boards complete mismanagement. They must go into games each week wondering what’s the point. Referees give us sod all, VAR will probably screw us over and even if we win there’s not guarantee that the points will matter come the end of the season.

Imagine the last game of the season .. we are 3 points clear of relegation with a worse gd than Luton .

They go ahead of us with a final minute winner … do they celebrate? Have they stayed up?

Or Forrest are below us … we stay up and we lose our appeal and they win theirs … it’s so messy

 

[John from Bootle]

Yeah, all club revenues originate with supporter interest.

Absolutely. If anybody wants to argue otherwise, I'll happily provide them with a list of obscure sports and their associated revenues* to drive home this undeniable fact.

*Yeah, I won't really. As if I could be arsed. It helps make a valid point as a statement though.

 

[Wat Tyler]

The more you think of it, the less it seems fair.

Its PSR - the s stands for Sustainability. We are building a ground to make us sustainable yet points taken would relegate us and put us in administration the opposite of sustainable. Dyche was right, we are getting on field penalties for off field issues, there’s been no on field gain, we haven’t took the piss in the transfer market, we have sold to buy.

18th for net spend and getting punished just shows how wrong it is

 

[DL100]

So am i right in thinking that if you remove any Stadium costs then we wouldnt be in breach of FFP / FSR?

 

[sam17]

The more you think of it, the less it seems fair.

Its PSR - the s stands for Sustainability. We are building a ground to make us sustainable yet points taken would relegate us and put us in administration the opposite of sustainable. Dyche was right, we are getting on field penalties for off field issues, there’s been no on field gain, we haven’t took the piss in the transfer market, we have sold to buy.

18th for net spend and getting punished just shows how wrong it is

We did that five years ago, did it terribly, and got left with players on huge wages who offered nothing to the team.

As a result, we've ended up selling anything we could do, to try and keep the lights on.

There is clearly a technical argument around the way we have accounted over the period, but had it not been for reckless spending prior, that argument would have been null and void.

 

[pfim]

We did that five years ago, did it terribly, and got left with players on huge wages who offered nothing to the team.

As a result, we've ended up selling anything we could do, to try and keep the lights on.

There is clearly a technical argument around the way we have accounted over the period, but had it not been for reckless spending prior, that argument would have been null and void.

Yes, we're paying for the mistakes of the past.

 

[John from Bootle]

So am i right in thinking that if you remove any Stadium costs then we wouldnt be in breach of FFP / FSR?

Technically, no, you're not right.

In a common sense world though, we don't make the losses we have if you deduct all spending on the stadium.

 

[sam17]

So am i right in thinking that if you remove any Stadium costs then we wouldnt be in breach of FFP / FSR?

No our argument is regarding an accounting technicality linked to the stadium.

As has been previously said, the overall loss was much greater, the allowable expenditure was then deducted to reduce our FFP loss, which still exceeded the allowable.

 

[John from Bootle]

Yeah, Moshiri bought a midfield at a point during the four year period in an attempt to improve Everton. It was a gamble, and they would have expected a better league position to result from it. That's the chance the report talks about, a gamble as old as football. A ridiculous thing to say in evidence, but far from an admittance of a deliberate breach.

It's pretty strange: you quote the report over and again at people, yet every element, Moshiri's midfield, Players X and Y, the loan interest, you characterise as Everton's deliberate attempts to beat the rules, when it's a central conclusion of the report that they weren't.

Post of the year* for me this mate. Very well said.

*It's only January though, so wouldn't get too carried away

 

[Tony’s Carp]

Imagine the last game of the season .. we are 3 points clear of relegation with a worse gd than Luton .

They go ahead of us with a final minute winner … do they celebrate? Have they stayed up?

Or Forrest are below us … we stay up and we lose our appeal and they win theirs … it’s so messy

It’s incredibly messy and (a bit like VAR) it’s not what anyone wants, fans just want to believe in what they’re seeing not have outcomes messed about with.

From a legal perspective it also raises the question of whether holding the appeal after the outcome of the season is known is prejudicial to the appeal. The stakes and effect of the appeal decision shouldn’t enter into consideration but in reality would it?

“Luton fans think they’ve stayed up so it would be unfair to reduce Everton’s sanction and now relegate them instead” isn’t a consideration the appeal board should make but in reality, you can see how it easily could.

For the sake of EVERY club involved they need to find a way to resolve it all and let the football decide.

 

[Jacko93]

So am i right in thinking that if you remove any Stadium costs then we wouldnt be in breach of FFP / FSR?

If we weren't building a stadium, we would have no breach. I'm pretty confident in saying that.

 

[Tipp blue]

All this talk of punishing the fans is nonsense and does the argument no favours at all. Can a team not be relegated because it will hurt the fans? It's football.

Saying that the punishment exacerbates the issue also lacks any credibility. The rules and punishments are an incentive to clubs to manage their affairs properly. If a club fails to do this, you can't then say that punishment is unfair as there is otherwise no incentive and clubs are more likely to be mismanaged to extinction. Its the management's fault, nobody else's.

I get its raw and it hurts, especially when you look at city and how they have gotten away with things for so long but the best bet is simply claiming the punishment is disproportionate and the process lacked clarity as there is certainly an argument to be had there. The rest of it just dramatic nonsense that won't hold any weight with the panel.

It was a very important issue when the 6 attempted to ruin football... it was fired out from all angles.. we had a man owning the club who was a billionaire accountant who made a dogs dinner out of our finances, the rules need to punish reckless owners not the fans..

 

[Wat Tyler]

We did that five years ago, did it terribly, and got left with players on huge wages who offered nothing to the team.

As a result, we've ended up selling anything we could do, to try and keep the lights on.

There is clearly a technical argument around the way we have accounted over the period, but had it not been for reckless spending prior, that argument would have been null and void.

Exactly, and now we have the media telling us that we need to sell Onana and Branthwaite. It’s gone potty

 

[Tony’s Carp]

If we weren't building a stadium, we would have no breach. I'm pretty confident in saying that.

Yeah this is the frustrating thing, we’ve messed up the structure and accounting of the loans and the interest but, technicalities of what’s gone where aside, if we weren’t building a stadium the loans and the interest payments need not exist, Moshiri could simply have funded the cash flow instead. We’re to blame for overlooking that I guess but the IC could probably take a more holistic view.