6 + 2 Point Deductions

This is a long post and yes it’s about Chelsea so apologies but as so many are questioning how Chelsea have avoided charges I thought it might add some meat to the debating bone


Far too much attention is paid to the statutory accounts when people are trying to work out what the clubs P& S Submissions will be.
Of course they point us in a direction but as was highlighted in the Everton charge there so many deductions , concessions and like the majority only know what is put in the public domain but being a Chelsea fan with a background in finance I will put a couple of bits and pieces which might give a pointer as to why we don’t appear ( yet ) to be facing any charges.

Including the averaged 19/20& 20/21 and 21/22 years our income was £1.278 billion. For reference Evertons was something like £558million. Chelsea’s losses were at £264 million or around 21% of turnover again as a reference Evertons at £237 million around were close to 42% But of course that’s not the measure it’s the £105 million that is key

So just from the accounts Chelsea appeared to have a bigger problem than Everton. In effect £159 million had to be discounted and these are just my guesses how that sum was “ accounted “away

1) Amortisation.
It’s a word that most had never heard of prior to FFP.
In Chelsea’s accounts there is roughly £150 million a season . But when a player goes out on loan for P&S the sum amortised is discounted and follows the player . As we all know we had a chunk of players out on loan so factor in just one Lukaku. Signed on a 5 year deal his £100 million fee means £20 million pa. But he is out on loan so his £20 m is discontinued for P&S.My guess was over the period that sum was in excess of £50 million
2) Impairment
Normally when a club impairs a players value( the club take a view each year as to the value of a player for who they paid a fee and in effect says in our books he is worth say £20 million but we now think he is worth £10 million so that write off or impair £10 million in the accounts which shows up as an immediate loss) Its an accounting adjustment that unless there are “ exceptional circumstances “ have to just take on the chin “ but by impairing sums this accounting year you reduce the sums you need to show in subsequent years
Chelsea rarely impair players values save the odd million or two but in 20/21 and 21/22 Chelsea claimed impairment of £93 million. I have heard two explanations 1) Part COVID fall out and 2) Player values re assessed as part of takeover
As we know Everton claimed part of the sum they inpaired in their COVID losses. It’s a guess but I would imagine that a portion of the £93 million would be discounted
4) Standard Deductions
Community, Youth, Ladies Football and Depreciation of Assets
Other than depreciation which was £20 million the others aren’t immediately quantifiable but I have seen estimates of around £10 million pa or circa £30 million over a monitoring period so potentially another £50 million there
5) Exceptional Items
When FFP was first introduced some suggested that the cost of sacking a manager fell into this category. Not so sure but in Chelsea’s accounts over the monitoring period Chelsea accounted for £42 million in respect of a historic legal matter and my belief is that this matter pre dates FFP so its highly possible that all this sum has been discounted

As we know Chelsea had to operate under sanctions whilst I am far from sure of the numbers but I know that have been calculated in terms of provable income lost . For instance the club could sell tickets for quite a few games and when they did the proceeds had to be donated to charity. Then you had 3 suspended their £40 million pa deal for 3 months they weren’t alone, . I don’t know for sure but I would imagine that the club would be claiming some allowance here.

There is nothing new in regards to the info about deductions that we didn't already know and as a result i remain utterly convinced your are massively in breach. I can think that the reasons you have not been charged is because their is an element of fraud from the previous regime which on Chelsea's own admission on a prima facia basis seems obvious, and this complication is the reason why the charges have not yet been made as they are part of a much wider investigation.
 
The facts are not on Moshiri's side.

10 points for a 19 million breach over three years is absurd.

None of this has changed.

This thread should be about 1/3 of what it is, most of it is just bickering over facts, and then one guy being unreasonable in terms of addressing the punishment.

Very much so. It's becoming a blurred line between appealing our punishment and the P&S rules/PL handling in general. The two are separate.

Not one fan has defended Moshiri and how he's handled it. Neither have they disagreed with us being over and being punished.

The arguments have always been - disagreements with how much we actually went over and whether is equates to a 10 points deduction.

Then the separate issue is the P&SR rules themselves in relation to clubs and the league.
 
Like clockwork they poured out after the parliamentary hearing

Absolutely. They took a kicking from everyone after that hearing.
Straight into spin doctor mode now.
Its the way of the world but it doesnt alter that they're as greasy and bent as murdoch.
Masters came across as a right charlatan and that was without anyone really going for the jugular.
 

There is nothing new in regards to the info about deductions that we didn't already know and as a result i remain utterly convinced your are massively in breach. I can think that the reasons you have not been charged is because their is an element of fraud from the previous regime which on Chelsea's own admission on a prima facia basis seems obvious, and this complication is the reason why the charges have not yet been made as they are part of a much wider investigation.
If we were as you say massively in breach then the PL have missed their chance to charge up under the section that Everton’s 2 and now Forests charges had to be made the reason is that they have to within 14 days of 31/12 to lay the charges.
There is no way that they would delay those charges pending an on going investigation bearing in mind the matters being looked at were for the period 2012-2019
If Chelsea are charged , which is highly possible, it will be a kin to Cities.
 
Wolves bought their way out of trouble in January though, having already spent big in the summer. They took out a loan for Cunha with an obligation to buy for 45m this summer among other signings.

Essentially what they did was blow all their summer budget early to get out of relegation and that’s why they had to get players out the door in the summer to balance it.

It wasn’t some great effort to do the right thing, they’d taken risks with stuff like the Cunha obligation that would’ve really hurt them if they had gone down, they got away with it and fair play but they shouldn’t cry about what happened in the summer, it was just part of the risks they took in the two windows before.

And if they were put under any real scrutiny for the past few years dealings they might not be the paragons of virtue either. Ruben Neves, whose sale got them out of trouble, was one of the hottest young players around when he decided to join them in the Championship. Just really fancied Deepdale on a Wednesday night, yeah?
If a player is bought in with an obligation to buy as opposed to an option to buy the fee due paid is immediately and yes in advance added to the amortisation in the case of Wolves and his parent club ( if he wasn’t an academy product) both counts the future fee for income purposes and of course isn’t charged any amortisation from that point on
 
Given the state sponsored financial doping in football there are only 2 real options to ensure "fairness". One is to have a transfer fee and wage cap with all contracts held centrally by the Premier League. The other is just let clubs spend whatever they want.
 
I can agree that Moshiri and the whole board at the time are idiots but £105m is definitely not generous, with a turnover like ours and that includes most of the other clubs. The top 6 turnover is monstrous compared to the bottom 14 and that is where that £105m is grossly unfair. Interest was allowed during the first period of the stadia build, Everton stated that in their defence, but Everton said that changed, if so that was strange, very strange. Also player x, was put forward by Everton and threw out as not a mitigating circumstance. I agree with Everton on that we indefinitely suspended him, how could we play him in them circumstances ?
So who would buy him ? That cost Everton.
Not saying we are totally innocent by any means, but in my view thd PL Masters wanted an example Everton were that perfect example.
To prove they could govern themselves. I will never forgive Moshiri, or Kenwright who professed we were innocent, confident and had nothing to worry about right to the very end. But don't worry you can't hurt the fans, yeah sing another song, you can't hurt the cartel fans.
Interest was allowed because we told them that the Metro and Rights media loans were for the Stadium. That is classed as infrastructure spending so is quite rightly a permissible deduction for PSR purposes. It turns out that the terms of the loan state that the loan was for the day to day running of the club and not for the Stadium. It was just a stupid thing to do.

The thing is that we had dug such a deep PSR hole that we needed to take action. Instead, Moshiri just came up with bizarre deductions. He came up with fanciful excuses and even more fanciful figures. He tried to claim huge sums for COVID losses and pretended that without COVID we would have been able to sell Keane for a ludicrous amount. Totally ignoring the fact that Keane's career had nose-dived and that we hadn't even put him up for sale. As soon as they checked the paperwork it became apparent we hadn't tried to sell him.

Then we get to player X. There has been a lot of misinformation about this. What we tried to do was claim that if we had decided to sue player X for breach of contract then we would have received £10m in compensation so £10m should be allowed as a PSR deduction. There are 3 things here.

1. It was our decision not to sue player X.
2. That we would have won the case and the case would have been settled within that financial year.
3 That player X had a spare £10m lying around plus court costs to pay us that £10m in that financial year.

Player X and Player Y were just farcical. So farcical that the legal team completely dropped them by the pre-trial argument stage. There may be some merits in terms of mitigation but trying to quantify them and expect to be able to deduct them is frankly hilarious.

What happened is that we were miles above the permitted losses and instead of taking action to make sure we complied Moshiri just worked backwards and tried to invent bogus deductions. The basic principle is that if you put forward deductions then you have to prove them on a balance of probabilities basis.

I have some sympathy with your argument regarding the £105m losses. The way the IC will have looked at it though is that the actual losses should only be £5m per season. So £15m over a rolling 3 year period. The generous bit is allowing owners to put in £30m per season or £90m over a 3 year period.
 
As @ForeverBlue92 put it yesterday - football is the opium of the masses.

Too many doped up to see the woods from the trees. As for the likes of Mr Cross, he supports one of the 6 cabal clubs and instead of having some dignity plays to the gallery of betas who are happy with a pat on the heed for being "good" boys by selling the family silver to guarantee midtable in the PL.

Sooner we're out of this shambles of a competition the better. Beg Perez to let us join his euro super league - anything must be more legitimate than the current pantomime that is the PL.
Tagging yourself in posts 😂😂😂, how sad!
 

But surely there has to be room for common sense? It's known that a lot of the stadium has been paid for without loans, but this has had the knock on effect of us having to use loans to help with running costs.

Mitigation is allowed you know, and whilst it might not change a technical breach, these factors should definitely play a part in some sort of leniency/understanding when it comes to punishment.
Exactly, we could be in exactly the same financial situation we are now from a balance sheet and profit and loss perspective but purely because of the way the funding of the stadium and working capital has been documented result in us being in breach of the rules. That might be a technical breach but it serves no purpose in terms of financial regulation.
 
I can't help but feel Moshiri telling the hearing that "we had to spend to replace a non existent midfield" was the nail in the coffin.

Lets hope this 'super silk' is allowed to do his job.

Mate , it was .

Everyone knows , say nothing . If you can’t say nothing then say as little as possible .

He went on the stand basically , I imagine his billionaire ego had him believing he would destroy anyone asking the questions .

The reality was he was jack Nicholson in a few good men.
 

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