6 + 2 Point Deductions

[WestStandLower]

I think to be fair to West Stand, the Chelsea issue is far more serious than ours. Not only should those payments be brought into consideration within the FFP. I.e. those payments be added to the loss for those years etc, but those payments also suggest illegal behaviour designed to manipulate the system. They also have a duty to be open about matters and if they have concealed payments then that is very serious.

Our issue is a straight forward accountancy matter and we fell over the wrong line in the books. The City and Chelsea issues relate to deliberate concealment of illegal payments and/or potentially fraudulently manipulating their accounts. Are issue is far more straight forward and not as serious. Allegedly.

From the little that’s out there the DD carried out by our owners did expose payments that potentially weren’t in accord with PL and indeed FA rules but weren’t “illegal” in that no law exists that forbids an outside entity taking responsibility for and or paying another entities liabilities.

None of us have a clue yet how the authorities will deal with the matters reported to them. It’s possible, thought I suspect not, a settlement agreement will be reached avoiding charges but it was suggested to me that there is a dilemma because come down to hard and you discourage self reporting going forward but if they don’t issue a points deduction then there will be uproar

Clubs self report on a regular basis mainly for minor infringements but the sanctions handed down when the governing bodies uncover the issue is always harsher.

The issue becomes even more complicated because Chelsea have reached a settlement with UEFA re the years 2012-2019

 

[uglykidjoe1982]

What I don't get re: the Forest case is Profit and Sustainability (under PL rules) is a 3 year period. Forest have only submitted the books for one FULL year they've been in the PL, so what are they under scrutiny?

Apologies if this has been explained earlier.

• It’s pro rata.
• 
  
• Maximum permissible losses: £105 million over a three-year period
• Forest's capped losses: £61 million, considering their recent promotion to the Premier League

 

[uglykidjoe1982]

I think we may have reached the peak in TV deals now.

Across the world all leagues are struggling to get an increase on the previous TV deals.

Premier League can say the new deal is 5% more than the previous one but the reality is they have included more games to be shown live and per game that gets shown is of a lesser value than the previous deal with Sky.

And 5% is bog all when you look at inflation of player wages, transfer fees and general operating costs. Probably a real terms cut on the previous deal

 

[blueblood]

Wouldn’t have mattered if sold after the close of the accounting period. Damage already done. Would have had to sell last January to scrape above the limit. Plus, the club seemed convinced they complied last time so were probably content with our position until the before the hearing in October when we suddenly had to admit guilt.

That said I don’t think we will have an issue this time.

The only expenditure in January was paying Lampard and his staff. Gordon sold, Broadhead sold, Kean sold, Rondon left. That’s £66.5m in transfer fees and around £100k a week in wages from the end of Jan to end of June- so another £2m saved. That’s approximately £70m in total. I’d like to think we’d be ok.

 

[Groucho]

I see it’s Forest’s turn next.

Never mind PL, it’s only one of the founder clubs with 9 league titles, and another that’s won 2 European Cups back to back.

Who cares about our ilk when there’s corrupt foreign cash to be had?

 

[roydo]

I see it’s Forest’s turn next.

Never mind PL, it’s only one of the founder clubs with 9 league titles, and another that’s won 2 European Cups back to back.

Who cares about our ilk when there’s corrupt foreign cash to be had?

I wouldnt pursue the corrupt foreign cash line just yet, but otherwise, yeah. Everton were the 2nd most successful English club when the PL was founded. (I think).

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

You clearly haven’t grasped the difference between the issues.

There is no difference it is just semantics fiddling the books and avoiding the consequences.

Chelsea have spent a billion pounds under the new owner but hey they have given out 8 year contracts and sold a few academy players so they have not gone over the 105M losses right?

 

[matty1878]

they can’t deduct us again

let’s do an FO petition

who’s with me lads?

 

[Gallaeo]

Is it not the worst year of losses that’s falling away? Surely the direction of travel means we loss more than £20m less and overall we fall below £105m For the next rolling period?

 

[knowing your history]

Why did you quote me on this? It literally says nothing I was referring to.

My opinion is that the premier league want the Merseyside Derby on the fixture list annually as that increases the rights when they get tendered out every 3-4 years. Go down and that might not be an option for many many years (if we're talking a Leeds style exile from the top flight). So I'd say the premier league would rather Everton remain than not so that does reference your point.

Premier league now got a very easy decision to make, whack Forest with a -10 either this season or early next season and they'll at least be applying the punishment consistently given they seemed to delay selling Johnson this summer. If Chelsea get caught out aswell in next year then that will be three clubs punished relatively quickly.

At the moment being an outlier sucks to put it mildly.

 

[knowing your history]

Well if we’re living in a world where multiple teams are getting 10 and 20 points deductions every season then it’s not a real sport anyway and I don’t particularly care what happens from that point on tbh.

It's happened regularly in the football league for years. Have a look at how Derby and Sheff Weds were eventually relegated from the championship. This season in league 1 Reading and Wigan both have significant points deductions already.

Issue with premier league is it is so rare, just Pompey going into admin in 2010 and then Boro in 97 when they just called the game off at Blackburn as they had about 20 players ill (who all recovered in time to play on the Boxing day match....).

They lost 3 points and went down by a point in the end.

 

[stamullenblue]

My opinion is that the premier league want the Merseyside Derby on the fixture list annually as that increases the rights when they get tendered out every 3-4 years. Go down and that might not be an option for many many years (if we're talking a Leeds style exile from the top flight). So I'd say the premier league would rather Everton remain than not so that does reference your point.

Premier league now got a very easy decision to make, whack Forest with a -10 either this season or early next season and they'll at least be applying the punishment consistently given they seemed to delay selling Johnson this summer. If Chelsea get caught out aswell in next year then that will be three clubs punished relatively quickly.

At the moment being an outlier sucks to put it mildly.

Good post mate … will suit them to punish forest and then find some way to change the rules for citeh and chelsea when it comes round … absolute joke

 

[Victus]

Is it not the worst year of losses that’s falling away? Surely the direction of travel means we loss more than £20m less and overall we fall below £105m For the next rolling period?

19/20 and 20/21 seasons get averaged. So it's technically a 4 year P&S.

 

[Andy Gray Diving Headers]

On more of a generic note, it'll be interesting to the ratio between overspend/points deducted. If they use a blanket 10 points deduction system, clubs may as well overspend by £300 million instead of £20 million. Wow.....I need to give my simple brain a rest from all of this as it's taking too much of my (limited) brain power!

 

[PITA]

Is strange because well the model will be to sell your so called best players for big money and will only be the same too sides fighting over them. But is interesting to think if could open a market to teams like us to get players at a smaller price with a sell on fee, with a view to team making money on players like onana. Or even mid prem teams doing deals with teams around them while over charging the top 6 even more

I think 'sell your so called best players to the Sly6 for whatever they deem fit to pay' so that the non-Sly6 can abide by PSR and the Sly6 can maintain their dominance is the model that the PL are aiming for.