Moyes knows his time with Everton is up

[Carlito]

It'll be interesting to see how Moyes explains it if his team finishes below West Brom.

 

[steken1]

Surely the man who trains the team day in and day out is in a better position to judge the players mentally and physically.

I think he's speaking the inconvenient truth, we've been unable to drastically change the squad for several years now and we are becoming over reliant on Baines, Pienaar, Jagielka and Fellaini - they're all great players but we can't expect them all to perform at the highest level every week.

After that performance I don't think he is. How many players could have come in fresh enough to play a high energy game and still seen a side good enough to beat Wigan?

Duffy - Clearly a better option than Heitinga. No revisionism needed as we all said it before. Fresh as a daisy

Gibson for Neville - Back from injury a month ago, doubt fatigue's an issue. Was left out for tactical reasons, so the problems not an injury.

Naismith for Osman - Hasn't played much lately. Known for his high energy game.

There's 3 fresh, hungry players right through the spine of a side. All good enough to be playing against a Wigan side who are well below us in the league.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Baines, Pienaar, Jagielka and Fellaini - they're all great players but we can't expect them all to perform at the highest level every week.

In that case we shouldn't be paying them top wages every week.

 

[Mrk]

After that performance I don't think he is. How many players could have come in fresh enough to play a high energy game and still seen a side good enough to beat Wigan?

Duffy - Clearly a better option than Heitinga. No revisionism needed as we all said it before. Fresh as a daisy

Gibson for Neville - Back from injury a month ago, doubt fatigue's an issue. Was left out for tactical reasons, so the problems not an injury.

Naismith for Osman - Hasn't played much lately. Known for his high energy game.

There's 3 fresh, hungry players right through the spine of a side. All good enough to be playing against a Wigan side who are well below us in the league.

1) Duffy is not better than Heitinga - I've been hugely critical of Heitinga over the past few months, but Duffy is slower than a glacier - he's good in games where the opposition will be putting the ball in the box constantly, but Wigan don't play like that, they played through us.

2) Not sure about Gibson's current fitness - he apparently needs an operation though. He should have started.

3) Naismith has also been known for his substandard performances for us - he's been very disappointing so far.

But ultimately you're missing the point, we didn't lose against Wigan because we were tired, we lost because they wanted it more, we turned up expecting to win, both the manager and the players need to take responsibility for that. The truth is, on the day Baines, Pienaar and Fellaini were all awful and without those 3, we're pretty average.

In that case we shouldn't be paying them top wages every week.

In an ideal world I'd agree, but you and me both know that's not how football works.

 

[steken1]

1) Duffy is not better than Heitinga - I've been hugely critical of Heitinga over the past few months, but Duffy is slower than a glacier - he's good in games where the opposition will be putting the ball in the box constantly, but Wigan don't play like that, they played through us.

2) Not sure about Gibson's current fitness - he apparently needs an operation though. He should have started.

3) Naismith has also been known for his substandard performances for us - he's been very disappointing so far.

But ultimately you're missing the point, we didn't lose against Wigan because we were tired, we lost because they wanted it more, we turned up expecting to win, both the manager and the players need to take responsibility for that. The truth is, on the day Baines, Pienaar and Fellaini were all awful and without those 3, we're pretty average.




In an ideal world I'd agree, but you and me both know that's not how football works.

I disagree with 1&3 mate but I could do some other combo and it should be enough to beat Wigan. Point is if Wigan wone because they wanted it more then thats a far more damning indictment of the manager than a fairly small squad being tired. It's his job to have us fully mentally prepared to perform.

His comments above suggest that your scenario isn't what he believes really.

 

[Mrk]

I disagree with 1&3 mate but I could do some other combo and it should be enough to beat Wigan. Point is if Wigan wone because they wanted it more then thats a far more damning indictment of the manager than a fairly small squad being tired. It's his job to have us fully mentally prepared to perform.

His comments above suggest that your scenario isn't what he believes really.

I'm not trying to second guess what Moyes thinks, I do however think he's right about us being at our limit - we've relied on 4 key players too much for the past several seasons, if those players are unavailable/play poorly, the whole team suffers - that's what happened against Wigan.

Moyes can be blamed for a lot of things, but as is always the way on forums, if the team plays badly it's the managers fault, but if the team plays well it's in spite of the manager. We can't keep protecting the players from criticism, they need to be equally responsible for poor performances.

 

[steken1]

I'm not trying to second guess what Moyes thinks, I do however think he's right about us being at our limit - we've relied on 4 key players too much for the past several seasons, if those players are unavailable/play poorly, the whole team suffers - that's what happened against Wigan.

Moyes can be blamed for a lot of things, but as is always the way on forums, if the team plays badly it's the managers fault, but if the team plays well it's in spite of the manager. We can't keep protecting the players from criticism, they need to be equally responsible for poor performances.

What happened against Wigan is we were out thought tactically and reverted to route 1 football that they countered easily as they'd anticipated it. His subs suggest we only had one game plan.

A poor team selection aided that and by the sounds of the managers uttering a negative outlook had spread to the players and affected them and their approach.

Most sides have players they rely on heavily throughout a season. The ones we rely on generally play less games than the ones of sides above us, who also play more demanding ones too. That's not a valid reason IMO.

Moyes get loads of praise for the things he consistently delivers. His fans , in the main, can't accept the criticism he deserves for his consistent failures. High stakes cup games, particularly when we're favourites, are his Achilles heel and will continue to be.

Everything else is him excusing himself of his own mindset.

 

[Mrk]

What happened against Wigan is we were out thought tactically and reverted to route 1 football that they countered easily as they'd anticipated it. His subs suggest we only had one game plan.

This isn't really true, Wigan played exactly the same formation that they've been playing all season, they performed much better than us, and because they scored so many goals in such a short space of time, we panicked because we needed to get at least one goal back before half time - it doesn't seem to be a rational decision when considering it in hindsight, but at the time that's a normal reaction.

A poor team selection aided that and by the sounds of the managers uttering a negative outlook had spread to the players and affected them and their approach.

The only thing I disagreed with the starting 11 was Neville starting ahead of Gibson - but I'm not really sure how much difference it would have made because the big problem was our best players (Baines, Pienaar & Fellaini) were ****e too.

Most sides have players they rely on heavily throughout a season. The ones we rely on generally play less games than the ones of sides above us, who also play more demanding ones too. That's not a valid reason IMO.

That's true, but most sides have bigger squads than us - our best 11 is excellent on its day, but our squad is desperately lacking in quality, we have no real backup for Baines, our backup for Pienaar is Naismith and we don't really have a backup for Fellaini. If players have no competition for places, it's not unusual for them to become apathetic.

Moyes get loads of praise for the things he consistently delivers. His fans , in the main, can't accept the criticism he deserves for his consistent failures. High stakes cup games, particularly when we're favourites, are his Achilles heel and will continue to be.

Everything else is him excusing himself of his own mindset.

Moyes rightly receives a lot of praise, and I've never heard anybody who's unwilling to point out his failures.

 

[EFC Si]

what would everyone's reaction be if he announced right now he was leaving?

 

[Mrk]

what would everyone's reaction be if he announced right now he was leaving?

"Oh ****, Kenwright now has to choose a successor."

 

[runlikehell]

what would everyone's reaction be if he announced right now he was leaving?

Leaving right now or at the end of the season?

I'd be suprised if it was right now, he seems the sort of man who's got too much self pride and dignity to just pack it in when the tough has got going, he'll see the job out till the end in May.

 

[BadWool76]

what would everyone's reaction be if he announced right now he was leaving?

I would invite everyone in my neighbourhood round to mine for a three day party with free ale, drugs and hookers

 

[steken1]

This isn't really true, Wigan played exactly the same formation that they've been playing all season, they performed much better than us, and because they scored so many goals in such a short space of time, we panicked because we needed to get at least one goal back before half time - it doesn't seem to be a rational decision when considering it in hindsight, but at the time that's a normal reaction.

The formation you play doesn't indicate how you approach the game tactically. You can play long ball with 4-4-2 or you could play down the wings, You might have two defensive midfielders or two attacking ones. Formations mean little with regards to how you approach the game tactically.

You say we panicked because we needed a goal before half time? Why didn't the manager use his HT to put it right? We played the whole second half the way we played the first. He was incapable of changing the game and countering Martinez set-up.




The only thing I disagreed with the starting 11 was Neville starting ahead of Gibson - but I'm not really sure how much difference it would have made because the big problem was our best players (Baines, Pienaar & Fellaini) were ****e too.

Heitinga got murdered by Kone(and everyone else this season) last time we played them and he's costing us at least a goal a game every game. Duffy's got a bit more to his game than getting his head on it. Only a fool would play Heitinga the way that bad bell has carried on all season.




That's true, but most sides have bigger squads than us - our best 11 is excellent on its day, but our squad is desperately lacking in quality, we have no real backup for Baines, our backup for Pienaar is Naismith and we don't really have a backup for Fellaini. If players have no competition for places, it's not unusual for them to become apathetic.

Squad size is irrelevant as you said we don't play well when our best players don't perform.

When I pointed out that other sides best players play more and still perform you agreed. So is it squad size or fatigue for individuals?

Lots of the players you mention as lacking cover have been playing in cup games against lower league opposition too. Perhaps if Oviedo, Naismith, Barkley, Junior, Garbutt, Duffy, Mucha and the like aren't good enough to beat a side almost bottom of league 1, mid championship and Leyton Orient then he shouldn't have bought them and got rid as they'll never, ever be good enough for the PL.



Moyes rightly receives a lot of praise, and I've never heard anybody who's unwilling to point out his failures.

Your excusing them right now.

 

[steken1]

I would invite everyone in my neighbourhood round to mine for a three day party with free ale, drugs and hookers

12 litres of wild'n'white, a bag of M-cat and yer Ma!

Typical wool.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Who do you think Moyes would recommend to be his successor?

Surely he wouldn't want the club going to complete ****, and I'm sure he knows Kenwright hasn't a clue.