WTF Moyes ????

[billycopper]

My two cents before this thread is impounded by the Thread Fuzz.

Distin. A fine brick wall of a man who plays like a blocker in the NFL . But he has two flaws which are often exposed by attacking opponents. Firstly, his speed will always be hindered by his size - which is to be expected for a man in that position. But his most flawed characteristic is his over abundant ONE FOOTEDNESS . When in possession and trying to clear the ball or simply pass, it's always on his preferred left foot, which when you have the turning circle of an oil tanker and the grace of a Pamplona bull, it's no easy thing.

Heitinga, I think Moyes yesterday was experimenting with something we've all been crying out for for a long time. A right footed winger.Taking off Hibbo and giving Sergio Ramus Coleman the chance to open up his legs and play wide right and leave the defensive duties to Jonny was genius in my eyes. From the moment he came on the Iconic Irishman bounded down the wing and gave their defence a torrid time, something only Donovan has given us lately. It was experimental by Moyes - and it worked. It was then down to the strikers to finish off the good work - which they failed to do

Distin is like a pint of Guiness..he'll wait and wait and wait...looking for space to open up to run into or a long pass to hit. All too often though he gets closed down. Just give it to Baines and let him go for a run.

Hibbert was playing behind Coleman. Moyes just replaced like for like at rightback, which added nothing either defensively or offensively.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

We battered them for almost the entire game, we just are just lacking that final 3rd killer instinct at the moment, little bit of luck.

No need to panic yet, some of our footballer yesterday was a joy.

Truth, again - summed up in 2 sentances, yet people insist on starting thread, after thread!

 

[Only-Blue-toffees]

We also need to shoot more out of the box, it frustrates me when they could shoot but instead they try and pass it in the box all the frickin time. Baines had a few chances when he ran in the box instead of smashing it he decided to bloody pass it and then the defender just kicks it out for a corner. Is it only Saha and Bily who do shoot from distance in our team. I'm sure moyes warns them before each game "Under no circumstances...do you shoot from distance or you'll be on the bench the next game" lol

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Distin is like a pint of Guiness..he'll wait and wait and wait...looking for space to open up to run into or a long pass to hit. All too often though he gets closed down. Just give it to Baines and let him go for a run.

Hibbert was playing behind Coleman. Moyes just replaced like for like at rightback, which added nothing either defensively or offensively.

Or maybe our 70k a week superstar captain should demand the ball more and not allow centre halves to orchestrate attacks? Just saying like.

 

[billycopper]

Or maybe our 70k a week superstar captain should demand the ball more and not allow centre halves to orchestrate attacks? Just saying like.

I know a lot of people want to see Arteta playing in the Alonso role, taking the ball off the centrebacks and starting attacks. I'd personally prefer to see him further up the pitch playing cute one-two's on the edge of the opposition area, slotting through balls inside the fullback and dancing around tackles.

I think part of the problem with us is that we've got a sophisticated forward line, but rudimentary defenders. Jags, Neville and Yobo are all notorious for launching aimless balls forward. Heitinga and Distin are a bit more cultured, but there's nobody ahead of them looking to run into space. More often than not Howard will go for a long kick too rather than retaining possession or trying a quick throw out to the wide men.

If the ball is going over Arteta's head and not sticking upfront, what's he supposed to do?

 

[Matt Damon]

I know a lot of people want to see Arteta playing in the Alonso role, taking the ball off the centrebacks and starting attacks. I'd personally prefer to see him further up the pitch playing cute one-two's on the edge of the opposition area, slotting through balls inside the fullback and dancing around tackles.

I think part of the problem with us is that we've got a sophisticated forward line, but rudimentary defenders. Jags, Neville and Yobo are all notorious for launching aimless balls forward. Heitinga and Distin are a bit more cultured, but there's nobody ahead of them looking to run into space. More often than not Howard will go for a long kick too rather than retaining possession or trying a quick throw out to the wide men.

If the ball is going over Arteta's head and not sticking upfront, what's he supposed to do?

Distin does too many mindless hoofs too.

Heitinga at the back mean we actually play football from the back.

As a footballer all round - no one in the back line is anywhere near Heitinga's distribution. When Heitinga's hitting forward, he's always looking for someone.

He doesn't do this hitting into an area stuff that Distin does - often giving it right back to their keeper.

 

[billycopper]

Distin does too many mindless hoofs too.

Heitinga at the back mean we actually play football from the back.

As a footballer all round - no one in the back line is anywhere near Heitinga's distribution. When Heitinga's hitting forward, he's always looking for someone.

He doesn't do this hitting into an area stuff that Distin does - often giving it right back to their keeper.

My concern with Heitinga as a centreback is that I don't think he communicates well enough or has an awareness of what's around him. He seems to switch off, as he did against Brazil in the World Cup. I know he plays there for the WC finalists, but I'm not totally convinced at the moment. Playing infront of the back four, he would be able to use his passing ability. My issue with him in that role is that I'm not sure he's disciplined enough. I would be worried that he'd abandon his post to get forward and try to score.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

I know a lot of people want to see Arteta playing in the Alonso role, taking the ball off the centrebacks and starting attacks. I'd personally prefer to see him further up the pitch playing cute one-two's on the edge of the opposition area, slotting through balls inside the fullback and dancing around tackles.

I think part of the problem with us is that we've got a sophisticated forward line, but rudimentary defenders. Jags, Neville and Yobo are all notorious for launching aimless balls forward. Heitinga and Distin are a bit more cultured, but there's nobody ahead of them looking to run into space. More often than not Howard will go for a long kick too rather than retaining possession or trying a quick throw out to the wide men.

If the ball is going over Arteta's head and not sticking upfront, what's he supposed to do?

Well he should be asking for it. He's a player of utmost quality if people here are to be believed. I think he's a good player, not worth the money he's on though, but still a valuable player. So he should be coming deep for the ball, I see no issue in it, but I watching him pick the ball up of Jags and then he laid it off to Distin who then hoofed it forward towards nobody.

Arteta should be demanding the ball, Pienaar should be demanding the ball, and so should Fellaini. Everything was going down the flanks and very little penetration through the middle - could be why we were not capitalising on our possession.

 

[stinger]

But even thing like Arteta taking the ball from the back needs to be addressed by manager, on practice first - look how Barcelona does it, when Xavi drops back, Pique and Puyol goes wide, to prevent forwards from closing down them + Xavi, our CBs never do that.

I like idea as Rodwell as RM (at least temporary), but it can only work with Coleman behind him, as he will drift inside and open plenty of space to attack for right back.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

But even thing like Arteta taking the ball from the back needs to be addressed by manager, on practice first - look how Barcelona does it, when Xavi drops back, Pique and Puyol goes wide, to prevent forwards from closing down them + Xavi, our CBs never do that.

I like idea as Rodwell as RM (at least temporary), but it can only work with Coleman behind him, as he will drift inside and open plenty of space to attack for right back.

Well Andy Gray picked up on that from the start. Saying he doesn't expect Rodwell to stay wide, and that he expects him to come inside, and this would lure players to track Rodwell and open up space for Hibbert. In theory it sounds quite logical. It's a shame that yesterday people were not picking up on this tactic.

I actually thought Moyes played a good hand and to be honest I felt it was something that he was not likely to do. Maybe these tactics are getting hidden due to the lack of expectation by us as fans.

I see Everton as very much work in progress, we still have time on our hands to materialise in the long term.

I also should hold my hand up and say that I was wrong on Moyes' lack of ambition and tactical awareness to step up, I think he showed it yesterday, and on another day we would have scored 5 or 6.

 

[stinger]

I also should hold my hand up and say that I was wrong on Moyes' lack of ambition and tactical awareness to step up, I think he showed it yesterday, and on another day we would have scored 5 or 6.

Really? He started with Hibbert behind Rodwell? And he replaced Hibbert with Heitinga... for reasons only probably known for himself.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Really? He started with Hibbert behind Rodwell? And he replaced Hibbert with Heitinga... for reasons only probably known for himself.

Yes he started with Hibbert who as far as I know is quick, can get forward, and has been doing so, and currently can cross the ball as good as any player we have at the moment.

Rodwell would naturally be wandering inside, and thus pulling the left sided midfielder of Villa in and allowing Hibbert the space to get forward.

He then brought on Coleman, who finished right back, not Heitinga, but even so Heitinga is a right sided player also.

Moyes is utilising the whole squad, and playing players in positions in which they should still be able to be effective, otherwise why sign them? Especially Heitinga who being a product of the Dutch academies should have the ability to fit in anywhere.

I am starting to see patterns in Moyes now, penny finally dropped for me.

 

[stinger]

Yes he started with Hibbert who as far as I know is quick, can get forward, and has been doing so, and currently can cross the ball as good as any player we have at the moment.

I agree he's good crosser, but he isn't quick and he can get forward only when having across of space ahead of him. He's also very limited, will never surprise an opponent with his movement,reluctant to go the byline, when it requires some touches from him first. And don't start me on his ability to beat somebody 1 on 1...

And just wondering, if Coleman ended as RB, who was playing as right winger and where was Heitinga playing? Answer is - we switched to 3 man defence, with Coleman playing as a wing back... which was very poor decision by Moyes at that moment, because you don't need 3 defenders to deal with one opposite's centre forward.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

I agree he's good crosser, but he isn't quick and he can get forward only when having across of space ahead of him. He's also very limited, will never surprise an opponent with his movement,reluctant to go the byline, when it requires some touches from him first. And don't start me on his ability to beat somebody 1 on 1...

And just wondering, if Coleman ended as RB, who was playing as right winger and where was Heitinga playing? Answer is - we switched to 3 man defence, with Coleman playing as a wing back... which was very poor decision by Moyes at that moment, because you don't need 3 defenders to deal with one opposite's centre forward.

Well your wrong there, because he is quick and he demonstrated that when tackling back yesterday. How did we switch to a 3 man defence?

 

[pfim]

The right side worked well imo. As is stated above, maybe Rodwell didn't do much himself but his presence really opened up space for Hibbert. Maybe Coleman would add more guile on the wing, but I thought all three players did well.

I was kinda pissed when Beckford was taken off for Saha, my first thought was that two strikers would have been preferred. But let's be honest, while Beckford has put in a good shift everytime he's been out there, he has not been dangerous and hasn't created chances. While some of that boils down to other players, when Saha trotted out he was dangerous more than once.

I also agree with those who thought Arteta was dropping back too deep. What's the point of playing Fellaini if he and Arteta are going to take up the same spaces? Although I disagree with the Howard comments, he was continually playing balls to the defenders' feet. Which I'm not sure is the best tactic considering which defenders are playing.

I think Moyes played his hand well, but they still lack the cutting edge in the final third. More needs to come from Arteta, Pienaar, Saha etc. and they just have not delivered the goods consistently so far.