Worst defence since last relegation.

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We'll get people back to turn the tide and finish top 8, no problem whatsoever. It's a poor league when all is said and done.

However, we've had a full compliment of CBs since the season began and this is the problem area...and it's been the problem area all season so far. That unit needed to be overhauled in the summer. The first chance he gets Martinez has to address that by getting a couple of very decent CBs into the club. Out must go Jagielka, Distin and Alacarez. They offer nothing to a team with top four pretensions.
 
strummer said:
Can't put a finger on why we constantly had bad starts back then but we had a quality side that year. It wasn't always hoofball under moyes despite what a lot of people say
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It nearly always was hoofball...as an average defender himself, Moyes mindset was always one of hoof it away. He had no tactical know how with regard to the positive side of football, that is attacking, beyond 'hit thr front man'. There will always be exceptions, but these simply prove the truthful generalisation about Moyes. The Everton job was the best he could ever hope to succeed at, he got the Man United job because of the egos of two people...himsel and Sir Alex Ferguson. The most consistently effective 'striker' Moyes employed,as far as Moyes was concerned was Marcus Bent, because he could robotically run towards the wings and be 'the out ball'. Moyes best idea for attacking was to have a midfielder (Cahill) who could use the space left because his 'centre forward' was never actually allowed to play down the middle.Yakubu, etc, were allowed their first season or so to play their own game, but subsequently were obliged to become target men. or dash maniacally towards the corner flags.
Discuss politely.
 
davek said:
We'll get people back to turn the tide and finish top 8, no problem whatsoever. It's a poor league when all is said and done.

However, we've had a full compliment of CBs since the season began and this is the problem area...and it's been the problem area all season so far. That unit needed to be overhauled in the summer. The first chance he gets Martinez has to address that by getting a couple of very decent CBs into the club. Out must go Jagielka, Distin and Alacarez. They offer nothing to a team with top four pretensions.
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Winston Reid is someone who I'd at least look at getting in. On a free come the end of the season, and the likes of Arsenal have been sniffing around for a while. Easily West Ham's best defender, in that he makes their defence far more solid when he plays. That run of clean sheets they had coincided when he was fit. Strong in the air, good tackler and has a decent turn of pace. The only concern would perhaps be distribution, although from my understanding he has played alright so far in the new possession orientated style BFS has been implementing.
Would at least provide a replacement for Distin and Alcaraz if naught else and give Martinez the time to bring through Browning and Galloway in the time and way he wants.
Jags for mine will still have a role to play next year, as back up at least if not partnering Stones, and whether Distin still has it or not we will see over the remainder of the season.
 

Steve Wigan said:
It nearly always was hoofball...as an average defender himself, Moyes mindset was always one of hoof it away. He had no tactical know how with regard to the positive side of football, that is attacking, beyond 'hit thr front man'. There will always be exceptions, but these simply prove the truthful generalisation about Moyes. The Everton job was the best he could ever hope to succeed at, he got the Man United job because of the egos of two people...himsel and Sir Alex Ferguson. The most consistently effective 'striker' Moyes employed,as far as Moyes was concerned was Marcus Bent, because he could robotically run towards the wings and be 'the out ball'. Moyes best idea for attacking was to have a midfielder (Cahill) who could use the space left because his 'centre forward' was never actually allowed to play down the middle.Yakubu, etc, were allowed their first season or so to play their own game, but subsequently were obliged to become target men. or dash maniacally towards the corner flags.
Discuss politely.
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We played some very nice stuff at times. Our left side was feared as the best partnership throughout the league, and we tended to create more than enough chances but lacked a striker like Lukaku to finish them.
 
We've had one disaster - Palace - out of 6 games. Losing to Chelsea is not a disaster. Defensively we've struggled but we're turning that around.

As for worst defence you seem to have forgotten 1958-59

87 goals conceded (42 games) - the start was awful: Leicester away (familiar?) 0-2, Preston (home) 1-4, Newcastle (home) 0-2, Preston (away) 1-3, Arsenal (home) 1-6, Burnley (away) 1-3
P 6 Pts 0 GF 4 GA 20 Bottom

Spurs away (4-10) was just around the corner.. 4 clean sheets in 46 league and cup games. (3 in 42 league games 2 of those at Christmas - it was a long season!) - but it saw the introduction of a very young Brian Labone (4 games) - we have the modern-day Labby in John Stones to turn things around.
 
coyney said:
There is no way we will be relegated .not that we are that good more that there thankfully are far worse teams;)
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History is littered with teams who are too good to go down: Man Utd,Chelsea, Leeds,Spurs, Aston Villa and City have even dipped into the third division.
I am not saying we will go down but we badly need to at least take a point from todays game, Martinez is starting look like a manager who does not know how to stop the rot and also bear in mind that the bulk of his time in Premiership management has been in the bottom 5 (where we sit today).
I really like Roberto and hope he can turn it round but it is a results business and to be honest we have not really been playing particularly expansive attractive football anyway.
Of course a win today would change everything.
 
"we've spent £34M lad...we dont need to sort a CB or RB out lad...we have cover now all over the pitch lad...best squad since the 80s lad"

Fast forward a month: 17th. 6 pts from 7 games, playing like boiled sh1te.

I hope those people are giving themselves a massive kick up the arse right now.
 

davek said:
"we've spent £34M lad...we dont need to sort a CB or RB out lad...we have cover now all over the pitch lad...best squad since the 80s lad"

Fast forward a month: 17th. 6 pts from 7 games, playing like boiled sh1te.

I hope those people are giving themselves a massive kick up the arse right now.
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What about the midfield being totally over run, allowing the opposition to turn and face and play the ball where ever they want.

You defend from the front, we don't; we defend from our 18 yard box and you wonder why they're making individual errors when they are being bombarded with players running through the centre with ease and crosses, from both flanks, finding the way into the box.

The defence needs support, but signing your miracle lad from Celtic won't help at all

RM needs to look himself in the mirror and reinstall the fight they had last year even if means reverting to some old Moyes techniques of defending at all costs. There is a reason why his teams leak goals for fun, and its not the personnel
 
nsno-chris said:
What about the midfield being totally over run, allowing the opposition to turn and face and play the ball where ever they want.

You defend from the front, we don't; we defend from our 18 yard box and you wonder why they're making individual errors when they are being bombarded with players running through the centre with ease and crosses, from both flanks, finding the way into the box.

The defence needs support, but signing your miracle lad from Celtic won't help at all

RM needs to look himself in the mirror and reinstall the fight they had last year even if means reverting to some old Moyes techniques of defending at all costs. There is a reason why his teams leak goals for fun, and its not the personnel
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I'd rather be 17th than go back to Sgt Major Moyes dull football.

The defence have been shaky all season. They need gutting, and I expect it to be done in the next two windows. No more Jagielka, no more Distin, no more Hibbert.
 
davek said:
I'd rather be 17th than go back to Sgt Major Moyes dull football.

The defence have been shaky all season. They need gutting, and I expect it to be done in the next two windows. No more Jagielka, no more Distin, no more Hibbert.
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Gut the defence all you want, goals will still flow while they have no support whatsoever. Just watch how many times their midfield bypass our and can turn and face our goal, its ridiculous
 
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