Wingers

[penev10]

There’s been a lot of complaint about not playing with 2 wingers and playing attacking mids (or “number 10s”) out of position and it’s left me bemused.

What do people define as a winger? How many PL teams play with two wingers? (How many PL teams even have 2 wingers?)

Presuming that most people are of the belief that a winger is a player who predominantly stays wide and seeks to beat his man, “get to the byline” and put crosses in (I’ll stand to be corrected but that’s what I’m picking up) – have a look at a few PL teams:


Chelsea

Only really Hazard in the first XI. Mourinho regularly plays non-wingers out wide in Willian/Ramires/Oscar. I don’t know enough about Cuadrado to say what type of player he is but he’s probably the only other player at the club who could be classed as a winger.

Man City

Navas is the only one in their squad and he’s in and out of the first XI. Nasri/Silva/Milner are usually their “wide” players

Arsenal

Walcott sees himself as a CF but is probably their most likely fit. Ozil/Sanchez/Cazorla/Rosicky are not wingers but all have been played regularly out wide.

Man Utd

These lads are all over the shop (or “in transition”) so hard to tell what’s their first XI but technically Di Maria/Young/Januzaj/Valencia are all wingers I suppose but are played at RB, WB, CM etc. They seem to play a forward wide and wingbacks typically.

Southampton

Elia and Tadic don’t start together and Koeman plays Mane, Ward-Prowse, Bertrand and the newly arrived Djuricic out wide.

RS

Is No Markovic a winger? Is Lallanna or Sterling? Aggh this is the problem…..

Specialist positions have been dying out (most notably the goal poacher with the death of 2 up front or the "old fashioned number 10") and players are required to be more of a jack of all trades - full backs expected to make rampaging runs forward, centre backs able to carry and distribute the ball, a solitary forward capable of holding it up and getting in behind and wide men who can cut inside and support the play as well as hug the touchline. In the modern game of 4-2-3-1 it’s commonly espoused that the players in the attacking 3 need to be able to play anywhere across that line and interchange regularly (playing on their “weak” side as inverted wingers for periods).

Osman and Pienaar have done really well for us in previous seasons as “narrow” wide men, able to find space inside the full back and link the play. Martinez has tried to duplicate that with Naismith and Barkley with little success. Naismith probably doesn’t have it in him but makes up for it with endless energy. Barkley needs to learn to play there if he’s to develop as a modern attacking mid but it isn’t going well (maybe just due to him being so lacking in confidence) His movement and speed of thought are nowhere close so far.

Anyway that’s just something I’ve been mulling over the last while.

Tl;dr


Team Wingers in First XI / Wingers in Senior Squad

Chelsea 1 / 2

Man City 1 / 1

Arsenal 1 / 1

Man Utd 1 / 4

Southampton 1 / 2

RS ? / ?

Everton 1 / 3

 

[ijjysmith]

We have a lot of whingers on here if that helps.

 

[neil999]

its a good point mate, i think when we are struggling we look for the most obvious reason..which isnt always the one

 

[hktoffee]

We might have a lot of wingers but they ain't all quality. Mirallas is a top 6 team winger though. That's it.

McGeady, Mirallas, Atsu, Lennon. I would not call Pienaar a winger.

 

[markDee]

We've gone from playing players who 'can' operate on the wings from last season with mirallas, pienaar, Delefaou, osman, whether they are actually wingers or am's is irrelevant because they played well (which is the point your making)

The difference is this year is that he's playing Naismith and Barkley and even Lukaku (wtf) out wide constantly when it's obvious to everyone that is isn't working. We all knew Naismith was awful out wide when Moyes played him there. Then we applauded Martinez for playing him in his proper position, and then he puts him on the wing again!

It's all down to Martinez and his unwillingness to change the tactics and play 2 upfront or wingbacks or whatever.

 

[sd_1992]

I think people use winger/wide man interchangeably and most of the players you listed above come under that category.

The points about City and arsenal are perfectly valid (the CAM that they tend to play wide are far more disciplined than Barkley and Naismith positionally) but most teams play with two wide men who stay wide, as osman and peinarr do when they played there last season.

 

[marty mcfly]

Maybe we should start calling them inside forwards rather than wingers. No top team really plays with a proper wingers today.

The problem is that Barkley and Naismith don't have the ability to beat someone from a standing start. Naismith's passing isn't very good and Barkley and Mirallas have been poor this year.

The rest are too wasteful which is dangerous for a team that likes to dominate possession and they also don't contribute enough in terms of goals and assists.

We're really missing Deulofeu, Pienaar and Osman who where big players for us last season.

 

[penev10]

We've gone from playing players who 'can' operate on the wings from last season with mirallas, pienaar, Delefaou, osman, whether they are actually wingers or am's is irrelevant because they played well (which is the point your making)

It's kind of the point I'm making.

Playing with 2 out-and-out wingers isn't a viable strategy so you have to have (at least) one wide man who plays narrow. We just lost our two players who can do that job and we're now struggling with makeshift replacements.

Calls to play with both Lennon and Mirallas wide, say, would leave us exposed in the middle defensively and would lead to a lack of link-up play in the final third (ironically two things that are happening anyway but you can only imagine it being even worse!)

 

[kithnou]

we just need 2 of these really...

 

[cjuk87]

We have a lot of whingers on here if that helps.

POW!

Forum nobodies...this is how you do a first reply.

 

[penev10]

POW!

Forum nobodies...this is how you do a first reply.

Charming. The People's Club but the "somebodies" forum.

 

[ijjysmith]

Charming. The People's Club but the "somebodies" forum.

Agreed. It's a good post mate and you're actually spot on.

 

[Hibbertinho]

I think Boberto is just keen to force a lot of names onto the same teamsheet - on current form, Barkley should be on the bench. And Naismith should play behind Rom. And Gibson should also start with McCarthy, though I am not totally anti-Barry - logical spine of the team for me.

I think that whilst it's certainly not irrelevant who plays out wide, the various combinations of who we can field there are in fact less important than getting the middle of the park right. Barry's loss of pace has kind of dismantled the metronomic partnership we had last year in him and Macca, and then Distin's obvious deterioration has dented the marauding confidence of our full-backs.

Mirallas and Lennon have both done okay on the right, and Oviedo at times has been okay out on the left. I totally agree with you on the roles of Osman and Pienaar there in days gone by. I think we need to be bolder in selection other areas rather than waiting for a combination to 'click'.

 

[cjuk87]

Charming. The People's Club but the "somebodies" forum.

I had you down as a forum B lister. Be careful.

 

[blue61]

Wingers is probably the wrong term. What we lack in games are two players who are comfortable in a wide left and wide right positions, and able to link up with the full backs. Currently, one or both full backs either have no confidence in the player in front of them, or quite often have nobody ahead of them to link with. We've really missed Piennar this season.