Who did John Lennon Support

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neville

Player Valuation: £30m
Evening Toffees

During my recent foray to NYC as a big Beatles fan I went to see Strawberry Fields in central park.

A bloke had a stall across from Dakota House and was selling Beatles / Lennon stuff but also Liverpool FC Merchandise :eek: which I though was pretty [Poor language removed] and trying to cash in on the great man

I couldn't be bothered challenging him

So was Lennon a Kopite, a Toffee , or Neither

I have a sneaky feeling that he wasn't really into football
 

As The Beatles' star began to rise at The Cavern, Brian Epstein advised them to not pledge allegiance to either Liverpool or Everton for fear of dividing fans' loyalties.

Sir Paul McCartney had gone on the record to say that he supported both Liverpool and Everton, before recently admitting to preferring the blues.

He said: "My family are officially Evertonians, so if it came down to a derby match between the two, then I'd have to support Everton."

Best himself admitts to being a die-hard blue, not that it was his choice.

He said: "I was told at a very young age that Everton were my team and that they played in blue. There was no choice."

"But, I loved every minute of it and still do today. The minute you walk into Goodison Park there's just this buzz.

"David Moyes is an unsung hero for me. Everton were in a right state before he came and dug us out.

"He's made most of the money he's had and you can't do more than that."
 

Did any of the Beatles ever express an interest in football, in particular whether they favoured Liverpool or Everton," asks Steven Draper, "or did they steer clear of the subject for fear of alienating potential fans?"

The answer, James, is ambiguous at best. The Beatles were never regulars at either Anfield or Goodison Park - so it really depends on which titbit of folklore you choose to swallow.

Donald Philips is among many who think that the Sergeant Pepper cover is the killer giveaway. Standing just on Marlene Dietrich's shoulder grinning madly is Albert Stubbins, the red-haired Liverpool centre forward - and the only player to make the many-faced cover.

While there are those who claim, rather mean-spiritedly, that Stubbins only made the cover because John Lennon liked his name, many more are determined to prove that the Beatles worshiped at the Kop when not hopping across the continents for a visit to the Maharishi.

Karl Coppack comes up with Paul McCartney trying to get the 1977 Liverpool v Man United FA Cup final on the radio while on his boat in the Caribbean, while the words clutching at straws come to mind for both Stephen Pepper - who recalls the Beatles wearing a huge red-and-white scarf in a skiing scene of Help! - and Ian Gresham, who remembers snaps from 1968's Mad Day Out photo session of McCartney wearing a red-and-white rosette.

A number of you with a worrying knowledge of Beatles lyrics also point out that Matt Busby - an ex-Liverpool player - gets a namecheck on Dig It.

But there are equally tenuous claims for a link between McCartney and Everton. Paul has been known to mention that his uncles used to support the Toffees - and that every now and then he would tarry along with them.

And then there was the rumour that warmed Everton hearts a couple of years back that McCartney was about to invest a lot of money with the club. They're still waiting for that investment.

The real answer seems to be that the Beatles did not have any great love of football - unusual in four lads from a footballing city, as Karl Naden points out, but not impossible. Indeed, the only positive sighting of a Beatle at a sporting event comes from Iain Saunders, who sat behind McCartney at a New York Yankees baseball game.

Finally George Harrision's reply to those impertinent enough to ask which club he supported was the obtuse: "There are three teams in Liverpool and I prefer the other one." Which leaves us very much where we started.
 
Editor’s Note
This piece was originally published on April 8, 2008. For more on the Beatles and soccer, don’t miss “The Beatles FC” at Football and Music.

very so often, on my perambulations around the footballing part of the internet, I come across a discussion of the Beatles and football: they were Scousers, in their sly way, after all. Were they Liverpool fans? Old Evertonians? Was the Walrus really Dave Hickson? Etc.

gray-beatles.jpg


The story that usually emerges is that none of the Beatles (Pete Best included) was particularly devoted to football. There are anecdotes about Paul McCartney listening to FA Cup finals while drifting on his yacht in the Caribbean, but they all have a funny-hats, drinks-with-umbrellas, let’s-make-a-day-of-it sort of ambiance. The best evidence of this is that the stories vary depending on which former intimate friend of Pete Best is being interviewed: there’s the red-and-white scarf in Help!, but Paul’s second cousin was a legend at Goodison, man. “There are three teams in Liverpool, and I prefer the other one,” George Harrison once said. Still, it can’t hurt to sort through the evidence.


The most plausible scenario has Paul leaning toward Everton—there’s a lot of family history tilting in that direction, and he went to the ’68 Cup final—but taking up an interest in Liverpool right around the time that Liverpool happened to become good. It pains me to say it, or actually, it doesn’t pain me to say it, because the man wrote “Eleanor Rigby,” and all your strenuous “fan ethics” didn’t even write “Medicine Jar.” Anyway, Linda used to tell stories of the family sitting back and watching Liverpool eat European Cups fresh off the vine on TV. Paul always had a nose for success.

John, as a boy, probably leaned toward Liverpool. His dad was a fan; and he name-checks Matt Busby (tenuously a Liverpool man in the late ’30s) on “Dig It”; and he was apparently responsible for the wax Albert Stubbins on the cover of Sergeant Pepper. But no one believes that he cared very much.

Like Ray Davies of the Kinks, Ringo was an Arsenal fan in his youth, largely because his Londoner stepfather only took him to Arsenal matches. Ringo’s sons, however, now have season tickets at Anfield, so it’s really anyone’s guess. And the same with George, whose interest in football seems to have waned once he’d finished mining the terrain for his Classic Beatles Quip. Turn left at Greenland!

John Lennon Bonus Coverage: The Walls and Bridges Cover

Every discussion of the Beatles and football notes that the cover of John Lennon’s 1974 album Walls and Bridges shows a picture of a football match that Lennon painted at age 11. To the scholarly football fan it’s probably obvious what the painting depicts, but I’ve never seen it stated online, and the Lennon biographies say only that it’s a painting of “football” (okay, thanks). So I thought I’d jot this down, just so the facts were represented somewhere on…the internet.

Here’s the cover. What’s it all about?

walls-and-bridges.jpg


Almost certainly: the 1952 FA Cup final between Arsenal and Newcastle, which Newcastle won 1-0.

The kits are not mysterious, and we can confirm them on Historical Football Kits:

arsenal-newcastle-1952.gif

l-r: Arsenal and Newcastle, 1952

The Arsenal kit in Lennon’s painting shows a white badge or crest on the chest that isn’t represented on the historical kit above, or in Arsenal’s 1951-52 squad photo:

arsenal1951.jpg


But it is represented in photos of Arsenal in the Cup final, suggesting that it could have been added specially to mark the occasion:

52-cup.jpg


In addition to the crest, the date of the painting comes in strongly for the Cup final theory. Lennon dated the painting June 1952, which was just a month after the match took place. The Cup final was the last match he could have seen—or seen a picture of—before he took out his watercolor kit.

Speaking of pictures, here’s one from the game that’s not too far removed from the action on Lennon’s painting.

header.jpg


More John Lennon Bonus Coverage: Revolution #9

The significance of the painting for the adult Lennon was probably that the Newcastle footballer with his back to us is wearing the #9 shirt, and Lennon had a thing for the number nine: “Revolution 9,” “The One After 909,” and “#9 Dream,” which was on Walls and Bridges, in fact. It’s probably just a coincidence that Newcastle’s #9 in 1952 was Jackie Milburn, “Wor Jackie,” one of Newcastle’s greatest players, who scored 177 goals for the club between 1943 and 1957. Still, it’s a neat coincidence, especially for a history-loving football fan who really likes Walls and Bridges. (I am that person. That’s me.) It’s Jackie Milburn who’s getting his header stopped in the photo above, incidentally.

Is it possible that the young John Lennon cared more about football than anyone has realized? He painted a picture of one of the great English footballers of his era in an FA Cup final that didn’t include Liverpool, and took care to get every detail of the kits right, down to Arsenal’s long collar points.

Also: why wasn’t the internet able to tell me that Jackie Milburn was on the cover of a John Lennon solo album? Isn’t that the whole point of the internet? Will you please go tell Wikipedia?
 
MORE BEATLES AND FOOTBALL
1000w


Football has never been particularly associated with music. Even Liverpool, which strongly evokes both cultures, is not much different. While exceptions include the collective anthem ‘You’ll Never Work Alone’, DJ John Peel’s well-documented devotion towards the Reds and Villarreal’s ‘Yellow Submarine’ nickname, the closest association with Liverpool in recent times has arguably been Leighton Baines’ music blog. The Beatles embody the city itself rather than any specific club.

Instead, we are left with mostly tenuous, albeit fascinating, links to the Fab Four.Firstly, any allegiances to Reds and Toffees asides, it seems they had some attraction, if not fanatical devotion, to the game. The cover of John Lennon’s 1974 album Walls and Bridges is an obvious starting point, painted by him aged 11. Given its dating of June 1952 and the kits, the weight of evidence would suggest it being from that year’s FA Cup final.

The red shirt includes a white badge, which was, as Brian Phillips deduced on his excellent blog Run of Play, most likely added by Arsenal to commemorate the occasion. The player in the black-and-white stripes, then, would be Newcastle legend Jackie Milburn. The number nine can be seen on the back of his shirt, an interesting theme throughout Lennon’s work; look at songs titles like ‘Revolution 9’, ‘One After 909’ and ‘#9 Dream’.

Listen to the alternate version of ‘Glass Onion’ found onAnthology 3,which samples Kenneth Wolstenholme’s commentary during the 1966 World Cup final. Towards the end, as glass smashes, the crowd roars as his phrase “it’s a goal” is repeated seven times while fading out. These various sound effects, however, were replaced by strings for the original White Album release in 1968. Three years later, interestingly, Pink Floyd included the Kop singing ‘You’ll Never Work Alone’ on their single ‘Fearless’, as previously noted on this site.

In terms of connections to the Reds, you may recognise former centre forward Albert Stubbins as the only footballer on the cover of Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, between Marlene Dietrich and Lewis Carroll. “Well done Albert for all those glorious years of football,” read a telegram sent by Paul McCartney along with the album. “Long may you bob and weave.” Sir Matt Busby, who spent five years at Anfield before becoming Manchester United manager, is name-checked on ‘Dig It’.

Leaving the music itself, evidence becomes more difficult to decipher. A red-and-white scarf can be seen during the Help! skiing scene, and Paul McCartney listened to the 1977 FA Cup final between Liverpool and United on his Caribbean yacht. Yet he attended the 1966 game with Lennon, seeing Everton beat Sheffield Wednesday 3-2, as well as the Toffees’ loss to West Bromwich Albion two years later. Further confusing matters is Liverpool rosette he wore at the Mad Day Out on28 July 1968, adding recently: “I support them both. They are both great teams.”

“Here’s the deal: my father was born in Everton, my family are officially Evertonians, so if it comes down to a derby match or an FA Cup final between the two, I would have to support Everton,” he said. “But after a concert at Wembley Arena I got a bit of a friendship with Kenny Dalglish, who had been to the gig and I thought, ‘You know what? I am just going to support them both because it’s all Liverpool and I don’t have that Catholic-Protestant thing.’ So I did have to get special dispensation from the Pope to do this but that's it, too bad... but if it comes to the crunch, I’m an Evertonian.”

A diplomatic response, reflected by George Harrison’s assertion that “there are three teams in Liverpool and I prefer the other one.” Ringo Starr’s allegiance is ostensibly clearer, according to author Andy Thompson, because he went to Arsenal games at Anfield or Goodison Park with his stepfather from London. Yet Starr has revealed as much as his favourite colour being red. Other connections include former manager Neil Aspinall, an ardent Liverpool fan. “Mop”-haired George Best, sharing a surname with ex-drummer Pete, was nicknamed O Quinto Beatle in the Portuguese press after scoring in the European Cup against Benfica.

Lennon, on the other hand, seemed more interested in American football when interviewed by Howard Cosell in December 1974. “It’s an amazing event and sight,” he said. “It makes rock concerts look like tea parties... I’ve been trying to follow the game but I couldn’t understand why half the team was on and half the team was off.” He added: “It’s nothing like soccer but I can see a very close relationship to rugby football, which has the shape ball and they move 15 yards down the line at a same time,” going on to speak more enthusiastically about the two sports.

The band’s passing interest was perhaps best summed by McCartney: “I used to enjoy football in the street, but by the time it got a bit formalised I wasn’t very good at it. That puts you off when there are always guys mightily bigger or better than you are. And that’s how it was with the Beatles, none of us was very sports minded. I like watching the footie on the telly, I go to the occasional match but I’m not a massive fan.” It seems a reasonable conclusion to draw.

Perhaps this speculation, analysing lyrics like “toe-jam football,” is in fact beside the point. Just watch that infamous video of the vociferous 1960s Kop singing ‘She Loves You’, or Sky Sports’ superb compilation of that night in Istanbul accompanied by ‘In My Life’. What really matters is what Beatles music means to those in the stands.
 

They all said a load of times that they didn't support anyone, seen a few interviews where they've been asked and they've said stuff like 'Liverpool, they won this week'
 
Lennon was most likely Blue (former LFC chairman David Moores in an Echo interview years ago)
McCartney was definitely Blue (on the record himself)

The amount of propaganda spewed out to hide those facts is mind blowing but telling that we're dealing with a brainwashing cult that's not afraid to generate article after article of horseshit to distort history.
 
Anyone trying to make a case for them being Everton fans is just simply wrong. (or Liverpool for that matter)

Have a look at this recently for example, 3:40


They just really weren't bothered
 

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