Got to be joking with the right back mate Gary Stevens no brainer.
- Status
Dario Terracotta
Player Valuation: £70m
Always will be mate, "those that know need no explanation"
Blues Harp
Player Valuation: £60m
Brazil World Champions 1970....Everton English Champions in the same year....best 2 sides I have ever seen......nuff said
Major Gowen
Player Valuation: £6m
In search of perspective, I put this burning question to Gowan Senior, one of a dwindling band of Blues who've seen 5 championship winning teams, on the way home from work tonight. Some of his answers surprised me. He ranked the sides as follows:
1. 1984-85
2. 1938-39
3. 1969-70
4. 1962-63
5. 1986-87
Ironically, he regards the fifth-placed side as the greatest achievement of them all, given the shifting and improvised nature of the team due to injuries, though a triumph of the manager, rather than of style. As for the rest of the pecking order...
The 38-39 side came second because it contained three of the best he saw in their respective positions: at winger (Torry Gillick), centre-forward (Tommy Lawton), and centre-half (TG Jones). It also boasted the second-best keeper (Ted Sagar, beaten, in his estimation, only by Southall), and a prince at wing-half (Joe Mercer). He thought this side, at its best, flowed faster and more incisively than any of its competitors.
The Holy Trinity were wonderful, but could be (and were) kicked off the pitch, or drowned in the mud. Both this team, and its 60s predecessor, lacked the variety of goal-threats, ability to mix it (with honourable exceptions such as Gabriel, Kay, and Morrisey), and control the tempo of games, which the 84-85 winner boasted. Like many others, he thinks the key to this capacity to dominate possession was the best-balanced mid-field the club has fielded in his nearly 80 years of watching.
1. 1984-85
2. 1938-39
3. 1969-70
4. 1962-63
5. 1986-87
Ironically, he regards the fifth-placed side as the greatest achievement of them all, given the shifting and improvised nature of the team due to injuries, though a triumph of the manager, rather than of style. As for the rest of the pecking order...
The 38-39 side came second because it contained three of the best he saw in their respective positions: at winger (Torry Gillick), centre-forward (Tommy Lawton), and centre-half (TG Jones). It also boasted the second-best keeper (Ted Sagar, beaten, in his estimation, only by Southall), and a prince at wing-half (Joe Mercer). He thought this side, at its best, flowed faster and more incisively than any of its competitors.
The Holy Trinity were wonderful, but could be (and were) kicked off the pitch, or drowned in the mud. Both this team, and its 60s predecessor, lacked the variety of goal-threats, ability to mix it (with honourable exceptions such as Gabriel, Kay, and Morrisey), and control the tempo of games, which the 84-85 winner boasted. Like many others, he thinks the key to this capacity to dominate possession was the best-balanced mid-field the club has fielded in his nearly 80 years of watching.
rochdaleblue
Player Valuation: £50m
Who are we to argue with those thoughts. To have seen Lawton and TG Jones in their prime must have been something. Great read that.
CrustySack
Player Valuation: £0.99p
We look at teams now who set-up to play one way, either to press or to counter attack. Some teams play direct with the long ball, some teams get stuck in, some teams play tika-taka. They play one way or the other. The Everton team of the 80's could play any style, in the air, on the deck, quick, patient, direct, press, and they could dish it out as well when needed. The thing is, they changed style at will throughout a game like there was some kind of telepathy going on. Teams simply couldn't live with them.
They were brutal at set-pieces as well, either from direct or indirect kicks. They never knew when they were beat either. If the 60s sides were better, then all I can say is they must've been out of this world.
They were brutal at set-pieces as well, either from direct or indirect kicks. They never knew when they were beat either. If the 60s sides were better, then all I can say is they must've been out of this world.
Major Gowen
Player Valuation: £6m
Mention of the 1970 World Cup reminds me of the tactical and selectional fiasco that wrecked England's chances against Brazil.
Forced to resort to a plan B - Brazil defended uncharacteristically deep and in numbers, in fact, much more like an Italian team - after going a goal down, Ramsay threw on Jeff Astle and ordered Terry Cooper to launch crosses from the half-way line, a tactic which singularly failed to draw the Brazilian keeper from his line, and left the West Brom striker with the hopeless task of trying to generate power and accuracy from crosses with his back to goal. Crass and predictably ineffective.
Rewatching this nonsense a few months ago, I kept thinking how much better to have thrown on the best provider of hanging crosses in the business in those days, a winger with a genius for hitting the zone of uncertainty for keepers - somewhere around the penalty spot - our own Johnny Morrisey.
Great thread to read. As someone born in 1985 I've missed all this but through my Dad have heard numerous stories about both periods throughout my life. From the way he talks it seems he would say the Holy Trinty 60's was the best he's seen.
Just wish I'd been alive to witness it all...
Just wish I'd been alive to witness it all...
No.
You'll just have to take my word on it, that in 1st Div / Pure Football way (which is why I said Club Version) they were better than all the others - just like Brazil were Internationally.
They, like Brazil, reach a footballing peak that, again only IMHO, that neither side has ever managed since.
Not withstanding the fact that I dead heated 69-70 and 84-85, then gave it to 84-85 based on the 'Intangible' or as you might (with some justification) 'Unfair Barometer' of direct like for like comparisons, the 84-85 team hated losing a bit more.
I was there, I saw what I saw, that's my opinion*
The OP called for opinions from those who saw both, take it with the contents of a large Siberian Salt Mine if you like, I'm NEA either way.
*Disclaimer; opinion may contain 'slight' exaggerations for the purposes of Illustrating a point (but you knew that)
*Doffs cap to Gowan Snr. Re. position of 38-39, but in general terms we both agree in principle
Bluebonic
Player Valuation: £40m
I dont disagree that the 80's team would have beaten the 60's team a few times, but no way would they have run them ragged! I take your point about comparisons with all time XI and it is a valid one. It is equally valid to say that had the 60's side had the benefit of playing in the 80's with the improved training, nutrition and sports science, they would have been run ragged by nobody!
Contrariwise, take the 80's side back to the 60's and the likes of sheedy, Trevor steven etc. Would have been snapped in half by some of the grocks playing back then. All opinion i know, and i am not arrogant enought to say i am definitely right, but having seen both, i belive that on a level playing field, fitness wise, the 60's side would have wiped the floor with the 80's side more often than not.
60s easily - 10 golden years, 2 titles with 2 different squads. Best team on points in the whole of the 1st Division in the decade, wonderful players, Young and Vernon, Holy Trinity and so on..
Yes 80s achieved a bit more but they only burned brightly for 3-4 years.
Yes 80s achieved a bit more but they only burned brightly for 3-4 years.
- Status
Welcome
Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.
Shop
