Wasn't sure where to put this, just read it on a SAFC forum RE: The State of Everton.

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chris_b said:
Do you know how frustrating it is for an Everton supporter to come on here and read all your posts - that seem to thing we have a divine right to spend millions and challenge for trophies because weve been around along time and were good 30 years ago!

The game has moved on and whilst we haven't been left as far behind as some (look at Forest / sheff Wed etc) we have been a bit. However, we have managed to achieve modest levels of achievment given that fact - and it is this reason everybody is getting so irate now.

Moyes - the man you seem to want rid of - is the guy that achieved this - took us from relegation strugglers to PL respectability and now when we have poor runs and are only on the fringes of the top 8 we are being criticised for it. He raised the bar of our expectations but it is a difficult level to maintain as we have to run to stand still.

so rather than looking where we were in the 80s and before look where we are and what weve done since the PL stated in 1992 - very little for the first 10 years of it!

We dont have divine rite to win things, we dont have a divine rite to even be in the Prem - we are because we are good enough and because the club have managed to achieve ths with minimal resources.

I would love a billionaire owner and be like City are now - but remember - its not that long ago they were playing Gillingham in the lge 1 play off final having fallen so far. The fact that we never have deserves some credit.

Stop moaning and more importantly stop living in the past - it went away along time ago!
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Do you ever think a manager for ANY football club, gets stale, runs out of inspiration and ideas?

He's been here 10 years with no real financial backing apart from breaking up the squad by selling players to reinvest.

The only reason why Wenger and Fergie have lasted this long is because of their clubs aim for success, finances, youth set up - a lot more freedom to change with the football climate, tactics, type of players.

Moyes doesnt have that. Without that he either has to change his ways or hit a brick wall.

He's not changing his ways....
 

chris_b said:
Do you know how frustrating it is for an Everton supporter to come on here and read all your posts - that seem to thing we have a divine right to spend millions and challenge for trophies because weve been around along time and were good 30 years ago!

The game has moved on and whilst we haven't been left as far behind as some (look at Forest / sheff Wed etc) we have been a bit. However, we have managed to achieve modest levels of achievment given that fact - and it is this reason everybody is getting so irate now.

Moyes - the man you seem to want rid of - is the guy that achieved this - took us from relegation strugglers to PL respectability and now when we have poor runs and are only on the fringes of the top 8 we are being criticised for it. He raised the bar of our expectations but it is a difficult level to maintain as we have to run to stand still.

so rather than looking where we were in the 80s and before look where we are and what weve done since the PL stated in 1992 - very little for the first 10 years of it!

We dont have divine rite to win things, we dont have a divine rite to even be in the Prem - we are because we are good enough and because the club have managed to achieve ths with minimal resources.

I would love a billionaire owner and be like City are now - but remember - its not that long ago they were playing Gillingham in the lge 1 play off final having fallen so far. The fact that we never have deserves some credit.

Stop moaning and more importantly stop living in the past - it went away along time ago!
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Way to miss the point. We're just sick of ****, one-dimensional, predictable, slow, hoofball, every season being slightly worse than the last, and feeling like we're witnessing the long, drawn out death of our club, and moyes has his share of blame in this.

He did ace turning the club round, but the last couple of seasons he seems to have lost his passion.
 

Most of you seem to have some sort of blinkered sight in that w eonly play defensive hoofball - its utter rubbish and I cant believe I keep reading it.

I didnt miss the point Daveks post says
'Do you know how frustrating it is for a big club like ourselves to be portrayed in the media as "punching above our weight" every time we win a game? Because that's what they say every. single. time. Without wishing to sound kopite-like i.e. living in the past, we are the 4th most successful club in the country and this can't be tolerated.

Previous success counts for NOTHING anymore - what trophies we won in the 1980s mean nothing at all in modern day football to all but a few.

My point was that Moyes success when he came has raised everybodys expectations - what we are now achieving (a consistent top 10 finish with the odd decent cup run and flirtation with Europe) is reasonable given the investment and resources we have. The fact that you all seem to expect to be beating teams handsomely week in week out and challenging for top 4 places is down to how far we have come in the last 10 years - but whatever Davek says we have consistently over achieved - and if sometimes we lack the consistency to do that its hardly a surprise. but all of a sudden we have a few poor results (2 defeats having been unbeaten in the 9 before that) and everybody is moaning again
 
chris_b said:
Most of you seem to have some sort of blinkered sight in that w eonly play defensive hoofball - its utter rubbish and I cant believe I keep reading it.

I didnt miss the point Daveks post says
'Do you know how frustrating it is for a big club like ourselves to be portrayed in the media as "punching above our weight" every time we win a game? Because that's what they say every. single. time. Without wishing to sound kopite-like i.e. living in the past, we are the 4th most successful club in the country and this can't be tolerated.

Previous success counts for NOTHING anymore - what trophies we won in the 1980s mean nothing at all in modern day football to all but a few.

My point was that Moyes success when he came has raised everybodys expectations - what we are now achieving (a consistent top 10 finish with the odd decent cup run and flirtation with Europe) is reasonable given the investment and resources we have. The fact that you all seem to expect to be beating teams handsomely week in week out and challenging for top 4 places is down to how far we have come in the last 10 years - but whatever Davek says we have consistently over achieved - and if sometimes we lack the consistency to do that its hardly a surprise. but all of a sudden we have a few poor results (2 defeats having been unbeaten in the 9 before that) and everybody is moaning again
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Well, lots of people who regularly watch the team don't like the football we play and feel that it needs to improve. I've seem plenty of hoof ball in the last two seasons. Hoof ball aside, when we attack, it's slow, laboured and at times clueless. Tbf, today was a vast improvement so credit to Moyes and the team, but we have rarely played like that recently, especially not at home.

Football moves on you say, stop living in the past? I'm not sure I totally agree. The players are bigger and fitter than ever, but the game when played well hasn't changed that much. Good teams move the ball quickly, players pass the ball and move into space.

I haven't been on this site that long, but I don't recall reading too many posts from people who think we have a God given right to win trophies (go to RAWK for that). What people want is a team that have the balls to have a go at any opposition and to at least try and play good football. When we do that I'm proud of EFC, win, lose or draw. It happened today. It doesn't happen nearly enough.
 
scratchnsurf said:
Well, lots of people who regularly watch the team don't like the football we play and feel that it needs to improve. I've seem plenty of hoof ball in the last two seasons. Hoof ball aside, when we attack, it's slow, laboured and at times clueless. Tbf, today was a vast improvement so credit to Moyes and the team, but we have rarely played like that recently, especially not at home.

Football moves on you say, stop living in the past? I'm not sure I totally agree. The players are bigger and fitter than ever, but the game when played well hasn't changed that much. Good teams move the ball quickly, players pass the ball and move into space.

I haven't been on this site that long, but I don't recall reading too many posts from people who think we have a God given right to win trophies (go to RAWK for that). What people want is a team that have the balls to have a go at any opposition and to at least try and play good football. When we do that I'm proud of EFC, win, lose or draw. It happened today. It doesn't happen nearly enough.
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good points there mate, the worse thing that i find about it is that we do have the players to play footy, pienaar, drenthe, osman, baines, as soon as fellaini came on today we were playing quick one touch lay offs and shiz, its what we should be doing every game though, not a moyes hater, but am rapidly turning, especially after the derby, would like him to look at today and carry it through tuesday and realize that this is the way to go
 
scratchnsurf said:
I haven't been on this site that long, but I don't recall reading too many posts from people who think we have a God given right to win trophies (go to RAWK for that). What people want is a team that have the balls to have a go at any opposition and to at least try and play good football. When we do that I'm proud of EFC, win, lose or draw. It happened today. It doesn't happen nearly enough.
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This FFS. My dad loves to recall the times when he used to follow them in the 60s and 70s, when we actually lived up to the 'school of science' name. It didn't matter so much to him whether we lost or drew because we played beautiful football, the matches were entertaining win lose or draw. That's why he hates the current regime so much.
 
chris_b said:
Most of you seem to have some sort of blinkered sight in that w eonly play defensive hoofball - its utter rubbish and I cant believe I keep reading it.

I didnt miss the point Daveks post says
'Do you know how frustrating it is for a big club like ourselves to be portrayed in the media as "punching above our weight" every time we win a game? Because that's what they say every. single. time. Without wishing to sound kopite-like i.e. living in the past, we are the 4th most successful club in the country and this can't be tolerated.

Previous success counts for NOTHING anymore - what trophies we won in the 1980s mean nothing at all in modern day football to all but a few.

My point was that Moyes success when he came has raised everybodys expectations - what we are now achieving (a consistent top 10 finish with the odd decent cup run and flirtation with Europe) is reasonable given the investment and resources we have. The fact that you all seem to expect to be beating teams handsomely week in week out and challenging for top 4 places is down to how far we have come in the last 10 years - but whatever Davek says we have consistently over achieved - and if sometimes we lack the consistency to do that its hardly a surprise. but all of a sudden we have a few poor results (2 defeats having been unbeaten in the 9 before that) and everybody is moaning again
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Chris, what Everton do you remember?
 

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