TTIP

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"David Cameron was facing a battle to restore party unity behind his health policy last night after it emerged that several of his key shadow cabinet members put their names to a manifesto criticising the NHS and calling for it in effect to be dismantled.

The Observer can reveal that leading Tory MPs – who include Cameron's close ally Michael Gove – are listed alongside controversial MEP Daniel Hannan as co-authors of a book, Direct Democracy, which says the NHS "fails to meet public expectations" and is "no longer relevant in the 21st century".

Others listed as co-authors in the book, published shortly after the 2005 general election, include shadow cabinet members Greg Clark and Jeremy Hunt and frontbencher Robert Goodwill. Clark and Hunt were unavailable for comment last night.

Gove is also one of a group of more than 20 Tory MPs and MEPs who are cited as supporters of Hannan's views in another book, The Plan: Twelve Months to Renew Britain, published in December last year, in which Hannan and Tory MP Douglas Carswell describe the NHS as "the national sickness service".

Both books call for the NHS to be replaced by a new system of health provision in which people would pay money into personal health accounts, which they could then use to shop around for care from public and private providers. Those who could not afford to save enough would be funded by the state". Observer 16th August 2009.

The NHS is on a one-way road to privatisation | Healthcare ...

" Back in the 1980s, Conservative MPs Oliver Letwin and John Redwood set out their vision in a think-tank paper with the ultimate aim of introducing universal private health insurance. The policies of the past 30 years have adhered to this vision with remarkable fidelity. The revolving door spins smoothly between the lucrative pastures of private healthcare and the Department of Health and top tiers of NHS management – to give one salient example, NHS chief executive Simon Stevens’ last job was as a UnitedHealth executive.

Jeremy Hunt is officially on record as saying that the NHS should be privatised. Back in 2005, Hunt co-authored a book called Direct Democracy, which called for the NHS to be dismantled. David Cameron’s health adviser Nick Seddon, formerly of private healthcare company Circle, suggests that CCGs should be merged with private insurance companies and those who can afford to should contribute to their healthcare. David Cameron states that he wants to turn the NHS into a fantastic business. He vows that he would never privatise the NHS because it looked after his family while his government sets about doing exactly this".

TTIP provides a cover for the dismantling of the NHS. The current Tory government is full of those that want a health insurance privatised health service. Health insurance adds to the coffers of the financial sector, Dave and George home ground with their buddies, and the Health and Social Care Act further opens up of the NHS to full privatisation, with many MP's - of all parties - having financial interests in health companies.

It is not surprising that the Tories never once attempted to get the NHS exempt from TTIP negotiations, as the French did with the film industry. They believe in an insurance based health system and can see many many ways to make money out of this. An awful lot of MP's and their friend have contacts and interests in UK, European and US health companies.

US healthcare giant makes fortune from NHS but pays hardly

US health and health insurance companies have been in the forefront of supporting TTIP negotiations and making sure that the NHS is not exempt. No wonder why considering the way they can fleece the UK taxpayer.

TTIP will bring the end of the NHS as we know it.
 

This concept of 'free at the point of care' is a misnomer, it's pre-paid, national 'insurance', not for profit. As long as it stays like that most will be fine, however access to health provision by market via TTIP is the elephant in the room. At present the care is given primarily in line with the Hippocratic oath, not by swearing allegiance under threat of sacking by Fleece, Botchitt and Scarper Medical Institution Inc.
 
In reality it's been a blurred line for a long time though. GPs are private entities. The drugs and machinery we use are done privately. Our medical staff are trained by private universities. If I'm honest, the way I can see it going is that the NHS will continue to be a 'free at the point of care' service, but who you go to for the actual service will be more open. I mean lets say you get your genome sequenced by 23andme, you have a wearable device/s by Garmin (for sake of argument - I know they don't offer this yet), and so on. You'd want that data available to your GP and so on. That kind of thing is being developed, but it's not being developed within the NHS (sadly) but by external providers like Babylon. I have a lot of warmth for the NHS, but it's struggling hugely to keep up with the pace of change, so I can really see a point where it admits defeat in that and just provides the marketplace where people can get free healthcare from whomever wishes to supply it (and they'll provide a kind of quality control/regulatory aspect).



The principle of the NHS is the provision of healthcare that's free at the point of care. I can't see that changing at all and there seems to be zero will for it to do so. What I can see changing is who provides that care, but I'm not really that fussed about that. Essentially, all that really matters is that people get top notch care and that it's taxpayer funded, but that does lead on to...



...healthcare tends to suffer at the moment from Baumol's disease, in that despite the 'information revolution' reducing costs dramatically in most areas of life, costs have risen in healthcare. So that's a challenge. We also spend roughly 1/3 of the health budget on the final year of someone's life, and that expenditure seems to have little real impact on extending that persons life, so it raises the question of whether we're spending the money in the right way (cure that doesn't cure, rather than prevention).

This isn't a UK specific problem as most countries face a similar issue, but nevertheless we have costs that keep on going up, a demographic change that is shrinking the taxpayer base, and a seeming reluctance amongst the taxpayers that remain to dig deeper into their pockets. That's kind of the reality at the moment, and I'm not sure carrying on as usual is really an adequate solution to it.

I'm not sure TTIP will change that one way or another really, but it is more indicative of the inability, or challenge at least, of having any kind of serious discussion about the NHS without it rapidly descending into politicized mud-slinging.

None of this is really new thinking, and Simon Stevens was quite open about all of these things in his five year forward view from a few years ago - https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/5yfv-web.pdf

By and large I think the people at NHS England are good people, and are doing a lot of the right things, yet I've seen too many examples of the right ideas failing to be delivered well. It's a huge challenge, not least because of the vastness of the institution. The idea that it can be solved (or ruined) by soundbites is I'm afraid not the case.

The NHS is not free. People pay into a pool through their National Insurance contributions and everyone can get treated without paying at the door. What will happen if TTIP comes in and has been proposed, and argued for, by Jeremy Hunt et al is an insurance based system whereby individuals take out an insurance for their treatment, the US model. Those without money to afford health insurance will suffer as they do in the US.

Alternatively, if TTIP comes in and there is not an immediate movement towards health insurance, health companies will keep demanding more money off the state - taxpayer - to provide health.
 

This concept of 'free at the point of care' is a misnomer, it's pre-paid, national 'insurance', not for profit. As long as it stays like that most will be fine, however access to health provision by market via TTIP is the elephant in the room. At present the care is given primarily in line with the Hippocratic oath, not by swearing allegiance under threat of sacking by Fleece, Botchitt and Scarper Medical Institution Inc.

On the button! ;)
 
This concept of 'free at the point of care' is a misnomer, it's pre-paid, national 'insurance', not for profit. As long as it stays like that most will be fine, however access to health provision by market via TTIP is the elephant in the room. At present the care is given primarily in line with the Hippocratic oath, not by swearing allegiance under threat of sacking by Fleece, Botchitt and Scarper Medical Institution Inc.

Well, yes, obviously it isn't free, but your ability to receive care isn't reliant upon you having paid in enough to cover it. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of that method, I can't see it changing regardless of whether TTIP gets passed.

I thank you for not bothering with any of the other stuff I mentioned. Simple answers aren't generally going to help something as complex as the NHS though.

The NHS is not free. People pay into a pool through their National Insurance contributions and everyone can get treated without paying at the door. What will happen if TTIP comes in and has been proposed, and argued for, by Jeremy Hunt et al is an insurance based system whereby individuals take out an insurance for their treatment, the US model. Those without money to afford health insurance will suffer as they do in the US.

Alternatively, if TTIP comes in and there is not an immediate movement towards health insurance, health companies will keep demanding more money off the state - taxpayer - to provide health.

As above, you haven't addressed any of the concerns I raised, nor even the very clear strategy document published by the boss of the NHS, Simon Stevens. I suppose expecting anything else is too much.
 
Well, yes, obviously it isn't free, but your ability to receive care isn't reliant upon you having paid in enough to cover it. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of that method, I can't see it changing regardless of whether TTIP gets passed.

I thank you for not bothering with any of the other stuff I mentioned. Simple answers aren't generally going to help something as complex as the NHS though.



As above, you haven't addressed any of the concerns I raised, nor even the very clear strategy document published by the boss of the NHS, Simon Stevens. I suppose expecting anything else is too much.

I addressed the point that underpinned all else. It was wrong.
 

Just one more thing Bruce.

Don't base your whole argument on the singularly false premise that the NHS is 'Free' and then preach to others about the convenience and simplification of a health service run for profit.

Oh, and attribute the correct quotes to the correct people. ;) (Greg King, not Mark Twain)
 
Just one more thing Bruce.

Don't base your whole argument on the singularly false premise that the NHS is 'Free' and then preach to others about the convenience and simplification of a health service run for profit.

The what now? Surely it's beyond obvious that an institution with a £100bn+ budget is not getting that from the money tree, but the fact that the NHS is free at the point of delivery is one of the three founding principles of the NHS.

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/nhscoreprinciples.aspx

Indeed, I quote from the latest constitution, published in 2011:

"NHS services are free of charge, except in limited circumstances sanctioned by Parliament"

As for convenience and simplification, I haven't mentioned anything of the sort. I outlined many challenges facing healthcare provision in the west. If you've offered a solution to any of them then I apologise for missing them.
 

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