The press

[hktoffee]

Problem with that is we are then very lacking in attacking options. Digne has to play at least.

Push Digne forward.

 

[Jim Hopper]

Without Allen who can get turned and beat a press our midfield is nonexistent and they all hide from the ball. Swear Mina and Keane play more forward passes between the lines than our midfielders do.

as for iceberg, for someone that’s supposed to be able to pass he really can’t pass for [Poor language removed] unless it’s a slow 5 yard sideways or backwards pass, coward

Was about to make the same point myself mate. I’m gonna look it up but I am 100% confident the stats will prove Mina and Keane have made more forward passes to our attacking players than some of the slugs in our midfield have this season.

 

[billyblue80]

Push Digne forward.

I just don't think he knows how to play the left sided/wing position personally but it may be a short term solution. I would also try Godfrey in midfield lad is lightning

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Then that was not the 4 cb defence. Holgate, Mina, Keane, Godfrey - we get wins and draws.

Were playing with 2 attacking fullbacks yesterday we scored zero goal so it won’t matter if we play a flat 4. It’s only about the right balance.

352 won’t work. Newcastle away Leeds at home we don’t have players to play that formation.

We didn't play 352 against either of those sides btw - it was 343 against Leeds and we actually had 2 goals chalked off on the night the issue there was team selection we had Iwobi at LWB where he has never played and kin Davies as RWB.

Again the problem with a flat back 4 is it works against teams that we'll have 20% possession against but in games like Newcastle who wont dominate the ball we have to offer something to break them down.

 

[hktoffee]

I just don't think he knows how to play the left sided/wing position personally but it may be a short term solution. I would also try Godfrey in midfield lad is lightning

Like the Wolves game away.

 

[Bluestar]

I've noticed a trend, teams that press us high up at home have had success. It dates back to the Southampton game last season who pressed us relentlessly. Since then Leeds, West Ham, Leicester and Newcastle have all pressed us and had success. There seems to be an issue we have breaking the press. We need more players who can play in tight spaces and can beat players. We also need more pace across the team. Sig in central midfield does not help he is a void who can't get around the pitch.

You need counter attacking pace to break the press. Our attacks are soooooo slow.

 

[hktoffee]

We didn't play 352 against either of those sides btw - it was 343 against Leeds and we actually had 2 goals chalked off on the night the issue there was team selection we had Iwobi at LWB where he has never played and kin Davies as RWB.

Again the problem with a flat back 4 is it works against teams that we'll have 20% possession against but in games like Newcastle who wont dominate the ball we have to offer something to break them down.

It never works. In fact, I can’t recall we have ever been a success by playing 3 at the back never ever.

We used a flat back 4 in 6 games we won 5 and get 1 draw. We scored 9 and conceded 3 goals in 6 games. The stat speak for itself.

 

[billyblue80]

We didn't play 352 against either of those sides btw - it was 343 against Leeds and we actually had 2 goals chalked off on the night the issue there was team selection we had Iwobi at LWB where he has never played and kin Davies as RWB.

Again the problem with a flat back 4 is it works against teams that we'll have 20% possession against but in games like Newcastle who wont dominate the ball we have to offer something to break them down.

Problem is we never ever look comfortable or know what we are doing in a 352

 

[ForeverBlue92]

You need counter attacking pace to break the press. Our attacks are soooooo slow.

Was going to say formation aside the biggest issue for me is a lack of pace and physicality in the middle.

Soucek and Rice aint great on the ball but they are two strong lads who Moyes uses to battle ram the opposition + Antonio up top.

Teams like Villa and Leicester play with pace and energy.

We are the slowest side going and when Allan is out you have 2x of Sigurdsson/Davies/Gomes/James in the middle - none of them anywhere near physical or quick enough.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

It never works. In fact, I can’t recall we have ever been a success by playing 3 at the back never ever.

We used a flat back 4 in 6 games we won 5 and get 1 draw. We scored 9 and conceded 3 goals in 6 games. The stat speak for itself.

And who did we play the flat back 4 against?

You can throw stats up to make any argument look right - I could say I scored 8 goals in 10 games means nothing if those 10 games where against Blue square 5th divisons under 12's.

 

[Jim Hopper]

It usually goes like this.

Team comes out pens us into our own box batters us, we put the ball out for about 30 corners/throw ins. Team continues to run circles around us, nice one touch fast passing football.

After a rainfall of shots and balls into the box the, ball finally falls into the hands of Pickford.

Pickford plays it on the floor to Mina/Keane who slowly pass it around the back as none of the slugs in midfield have the balls to show or demand the ball.

In this time the opposition has all men back behind the ball.

By some miracle we musker up TWO! passes and get it out wide to Richy who puts his head down and runs straight into an opposition player concedes the ball, rolls around like his legs have been axed off and the barrage starts again.

Rinse repeat until the opposition score.

Go 1-0 down in the second half try to be a little bit more adventurous, by which time it’s too late and go and concede a second goal.

WHATS OUR NAME?!

 

[hktoffee]

And who did we play the flat back 4 against?

You can throw stats up to make any argument look right - I could say I scored 8 goals in 10 games means nothing if those 10 games where against Blue square 5th divisons under 12's.

Chelsea, Leicester x 2, Arsenal, Sheff Utd, Wolves. We get 16 points out of that.

You can throw stats up to prove 3-5-2 works for our team under Carlo, though.

We did not play a flat back 4 vs West Ham at home because Coleman came in.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Chelsea, Leicester x 2, Arsenal, Sheff Utd, Wolves. We get 16 points out of that.

You can throw stats up to prove 3-5-2 works for our team under Carlo, though.

We did not play a flat back 4 vs West Ham at home because Coleman came in.

And Sheff Utd aside (which we were poor against the worst side in the division) we largely have succeeded in games where we could defend in a low block and have 10 behind the ball for 90 minutes.

Newcastle done to us yesterday what we did to those teams - done us on set pieces & counter attacks.

We can play that way against better sides who come to have a go and leave themselves open we cant play that way against teams like Newcastle, Palace, Alladyce's WBA, WHU etc who are more than happy to rock up for a point and let us defend as much as we want whilst they keep 10 behind the ball themselves.

Those teams are beaten by having pace in your attack, creativity etc which we just lack all over the place. That's why we have decent results against the better sides but have stunk the gaff out against teams like Newcastle, Leeds, Southampton as when asked to actually do somethimg players like Siggurdsson, Davies, Gomes have nothing to offer.

 

[hktoffee]

And Sheff Utd aside (which we were poor against the worst side in the division) we largely have succeeded in games where we could defend in a low block and have 10 behind the ball for 90 minutes.

Newcastle done to us yesterday what we did to those teams - done us on set pieces & counter attacks.

We can play that way against better sides who come to have a go and leave themselves open we cant play that way against teams like Newcastle, Palace, Alladyce's WBA, WHU etc who are more than happy to rock up for a point and let us defend as much as we want whilst they keep 10 behind the ball themselves.

Those teams are beaten by having pace in your attack, creativity etc which we just lack all over the place. That's why we have decent results against the better sides but have stunk the gaff out against teams like Newcastle, Leeds, Southampton as when asked to actually do somethimg players like Siggurdsson, Davies, Gomes have nothing to offer.

We never know because we didn’t play the flat 4 yesterday when we should be. Also Olsen should be taken Pickford’s place. Past records proved that four cb defence works. When we move one of them away and put Coleman in we lost. This’s how the team react after we go for this flat 4 thing. We just getting wins and draws these are facts.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

We never know because we didn’t play the flat 4 yesterday when we should be. Also Olsen should be taken Pickford’s place. Past records proved that four cb defence works. When we move one of them away and put Coleman in we lost. This’s how the team react after we go for this flat 4 thing. We just getting wins and draws these are facts.

But I could point to beating teams like Brighton, WBA 4-2 / 5-2 playing open attacking football is a fact therefore lets play that way against Man City and Chelsea and see what happens.

You're looking at results only and nothing more - teams like Burnley wont come at us like teams like Chelsea, Arsenal, Leicester do therefore the strengths of the flat back 4 do not translate.

Pickford and Coleman should be out the side regardless I agree but you'll quickly start to see a lot of 0-0 / 1-1 results playing the flat back 4 against teams like Burnley and Newcastle as you need to be creating many more chances to break these sides down.