The makings of a good team?

[smileychap]

Looking at our results, they are not bad at all, but the performances are worse each week.

Through against Ruzomberok and Hajduk SPlit
Beat Stoke and drew with Man City
Lost to Chelsea and Spurs

"For a coach you always have to know that the next game could be your last" Thomas Tuchel

This quote could be directly attributed to Ronald Koeman as well, now just over a year into a 3 year deal I think it's apparent that he picks a team to get a result out of each game with only a minimal look to the future.

"I know myself that I am a manager who really gives young players a chance when they deserve it" Ronald Koeman

There have been three different approaches to signings since Koeman was appointed manager last season;

1 -- David Unsworth has not only been bringing through young players but has also been able to spend decent amounts on players for his u23 team. The main player we can look at is Dominic Calvert-Lewin who was a 1.5million signing from Sheffield United. His success is apparent but additionally we can see the great joy it brings 'Rhino' when he sees one of his prodigies make the first team or perform well for his country.

2 -- Steve Walsh as Director of football has to agree with Koeman on each deal, or so we have been told. Personally I feel that the signings of Gana, Lookman, Sandro and Vlasic were all his choices. His remit, I think has been (and will continue to be) signing players who can come into the team for the long term at a comparatively low cost.

3 -- Ronald Koeman has clearly been focused on the short term when it comes to signings. How else can the high priced signings of Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Williams and Bolasie along with the idiotic signing of Cuco Martina be explained?

There are three signings who I think both Walsh and Koeman agreed upon: Rooney, Pickford and Keane.

Our squad is like "a little horse that still needs milk and to learn how to jump" Jose Mourinho

The problems we have are the following;

A -- Our defence is usually comprised of players who are unable to get back into a defensive position if we play a high line, therefore we sit deep as a necessity and are already very far from the opponents goal and by virtue, they are much closer to ours!

B -- We play with two defensive midfielders which would be logical if we played with very attack minded wingers or on a fast counter strategy. As we are not using these tactics or playing with such players the sole reason to use two players here must be because the defence isn't trusted and there would be a large gap between our deep defence and the centre midfield.

C -- We have Six number 10s in not only Rooney, Sigurdsson and Klaassen but the unsold Barkley, the on loan Dowell and new signing Vlasic.

D -- There is only Dominic Calvert-Lewin with the skillset required to be able to hold the ball as a traditional number 9 in the team.


"It's just a question of 5 or 10 metres whether its a 442 or a 4321; you only see teams adhering to that at kick off and perhaps eight times during the game" Julian Nagelsmann

This is what I call a balanced team, the players all compliment one another;

Pickford
Kenny Holgate Keane Baines
Schneiderlin
Davies Sigurdsson
Rooney Calvert-Lewin Lookman​

Average starting age of 23.8

Here we have injured or other players who can rotate in/out even ignoring other squad players;

Robles
Coleman(inj) Jagielka Williams Mori(inj)
Gana
Besic Klaassen
Bolasie(inj) Sandro Vlasic​

Average age of 26.5


We also have Barkley, Mirallas and others I haven't mentioned and we should be able to play good expansive attacking football with this group of players.

We appear to have the makings of a good team but although Koeman keeps talking about pressing we only seem to do it for 15 minutes of a game.

Still, the players look like they can play good football...is it Koemans tactics/formation/motivating that is lacking?

People want success. it's like coffee, they want instant. Bobby Robson

We've heard Unsworth talking last year about how the 'golden generation' are ready and yet Koeman didn't seem to think so a fortnight before being forced to play Davies after ignoring him for half a season.

Personally, I just want to see us building something...there's nothing better than seeing a young player come into the side and perform well. It does seem though that they could play well and get dropped for no reason (Calvert-Lewin/Holgate/Davies) or they could be ignored for far inferior players (Kenny) and whilst I'm patient it seems to me that these players should now be brought into the team much more frequently than before.

Now is the time for the English players of Pickford, Kenny, Holgate, Keane, Davies, Davies, Calvert-Lewin, Lookman to all be considered regulars and Vlasic, Sandro, Klaassen and even Besic to be brought into the side on rotation.

I don't make promises. I promise results. Joe Royle

If we can do this and keep results going well against the teams below us last season then we will be making huge strides forward and can focus on only one or two positions to strengthen. That's the key for me and none of Koemans crying about how hard it is to finish top 6.

We cant compete with the big money signings but we need to build a team from what we have and the young lads. Despite all the negativity, we have the makings of a good team.

Brilliant article.

What are the one or two positions you'd focus on. A striker, surely. And for me a natural left sided player.

 

[smileychap]

I agree with a lot of what you say here. Good post. My thoughts would be that 10 out of the starting 11 were purchased under this regime. It took Moyes 6 seasons to have that many players that he had purchase start. Ok they need time to gel, but I for the life of me cannot see the rationale in signing Klassan when we also signed Rooney. Add in to that we also sign Sigurdsson. Absolute madness. For me, Barkley is a better option than all 3!

Koeman wants to press, but buys players totally incapable of pressing (Klassan & Rooney etc). We needed a back-up striker last season and all we got was Valencia. 2 years we have needed strikers (plural). We sold Lukaku too early and that cost us probably £30-40m.

Gameplans. Martinez had one, Moyes had one, despite their flaws. I have no idea what type of football we intend to go out and play... in ANY game this season. It is hopeless.

3 at the back - are you kidding me. You play 3 at the back when you have competent centre-halves, the wide ones of which are comfortable in wide positions. No other manager would think that Jags, Williams and Keane would make a good, balanced trio. Add in Schneiderlin coming deep to take the ball and we have 5 players (inc Pickford) behind the ball. Absolute ludicrous.

No outlet, no passion, no tangible evidence of any team talk taking place, Rooney, Klassan and Sigurdsson standing on each others toes. It has been a shambles. Chelsea should have beat us 7 or 8 and Spurs 5 or 6. We may get an absolute hiding against Man U. I just know he will revert to 3 and the back, Lukaku will score at least 1 and it will be another absolute melt of a game.

Koeman is losing me. I am not one for knee-jerk reactions but this team he assembled for all that money isn't a patch on the Moyes 2009 team. Vast improvement needed!

Yup. Nice Moyes reference, too. Fa cup final, decent Europa run. C'mon ronko, he did it on buttons...

 

[whiteshadow]

Looking at our results, they are not bad at all, but the performances are worse each week.

Through against Ruzomberok and Hajduk SPlit
Beat Stoke and drew with Man City
Lost to Chelsea and Spurs

"For a coach you always have to know that the next game could be your last" Thomas Tuchel

This quote could be directly attributed to Ronald Koeman as well, now just over a year into a 3 year deal I think it's apparent that he picks a team to get a result out of each game with only a minimal look to the future.

"I know myself that I am a manager who really gives young players a chance when they deserve it" Ronald Koeman

There have been three different approaches to signings since Koeman was appointed manager last season;

1 -- David Unsworth has not only been bringing through young players but has also been able to spend decent amounts on players for his u23 team. The main player we can look at is Dominic Calvert-Lewin who was a 1.5million signing from Sheffield United. His success is apparent but additionally we can see the great joy it brings 'Rhino' when he sees one of his prodigies make the first team or perform well for his country.

2 -- Steve Walsh as Director of football has to agree with Koeman on each deal, or so we have been told. Personally I feel that the signings of Gana, Lookman, Sandro and Vlasic were all his choices. His remit, I think has been (and will continue to be) signing players who can come into the team for the long term at a comparatively low cost.

3 -- Ronald Koeman has clearly been focused on the short term when it comes to signings. How else can the high priced signings of Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Williams and Bolasie along with the idiotic signing of Cuco Martina be explained?

There are three signings who I think both Walsh and Koeman agreed upon: Rooney, Pickford and Keane.

Our squad is like "a little horse that still needs milk and to learn how to jump" Jose Mourinho

The problems we have are the following;

A -- Our defence is usually comprised of players who are unable to get back into a defensive position if we play a high line, therefore we sit deep as a necessity and are already very far from the opponents goal and by virtue, they are much closer to ours!

B -- We play with two defensive midfielders which would be logical if we played with very attack minded wingers or on a fast counter strategy. As we are not using these tactics or playing with such players the sole reason to use two players here must be because the defence isn't trusted and there would be a large gap between our deep defence and the centre midfield.

C -- We have Six number 10s in not only Rooney, Sigurdsson and Klaassen but the unsold Barkley, the on loan Dowell and new signing Vlasic.

D -- There is only Dominic Calvert-Lewin with the skillset required to be able to hold the ball as a traditional number 9 in the team.


"It's just a question of 5 or 10 metres whether its a 442 or a 4321; you only see teams adhering to that at kick off and perhaps eight times during the game" Julian Nagelsmann

This is what I call a balanced team, the players all compliment one another;

Pickford
Kenny Holgate Keane Baines
Schneiderlin
Davies Sigurdsson
Rooney Calvert-Lewin Lookman​

Average starting age of 23.8

Here we have injured or other players who can rotate in/out even ignoring other squad players;

Robles
Coleman(inj) Jagielka Williams Mori(inj)
Gana
Besic Klaassen
Bolasie(inj) Sandro Vlasic​

Average age of 26.5


We also have Barkley, Mirallas and others I haven't mentioned and we should be able to play good expansive attacking football with this group of players.

We appear to have the makings of a good team but although Koeman keeps talking about pressing we only seem to do it for 15 minutes of a game.

Still, the players look like they can play good football...is it Koemans tactics/formation/motivating that is lacking?

People want success. it's like coffee, they want instant. Bobby Robson

We've heard Unsworth talking last year about how the 'golden generation' are ready and yet Koeman didn't seem to think so a fortnight before being forced to play Davies after ignoring him for half a season.

Personally, I just want to see us building something...there's nothing better than seeing a young player come into the side and perform well. It does seem though that they could play well and get dropped for no reason (Calvert-Lewin/Holgate/Davies) or they could be ignored for far inferior players (Kenny) and whilst I'm patient it seems to me that these players should now be brought into the team much more frequently than before.

Now is the time for the English players of Pickford, Kenny, Holgate, Keane, Davies, Davies, Calvert-Lewin, Lookman to all be considered regulars and Vlasic, Sandro, Klaassen and even Besic to be brought into the side on rotation.

I don't make promises. I promise results. Joe Royle

If we can do this and keep results going well against the teams below us last season then we will be making huge strides forward and can focus on only one or two positions to strengthen. That's the key for me and none of Koemans crying about how hard it is to finish top 6.

We cant compete with the big money signings but we need to build a team from what we have and the young lads. Despite all the negativity, we have the makings of a good team.

Good post.

I'm finding Koemans choice of ultra defensive tactics baffling, especially considering how badly the team is performing defensively due to some of the players he's picking.

I know our starting fixtures have been really tough and you might expect us to get a beat in a few of them but the manner in which we've lost them is worrying.

Koeman keeps on talking about us playing a pressing game yet I rarely see evidence of it on the pitch other than from some of our more mobile players. Even if we did implement a pressing game I don't believe we field enough players with pace to make it that effective.

We lack ability to counter with any pace and play with no width which is making us predictable and easier to counter. Most annoying thing is we have players like Lookman and Mirralas who would give us that but RK prefers to play Baines (who sits in his own half 90% of the time because his legs are gone) and/or Holgate (rarely gets forward) or Cuco (who for all he brings with his ability to cross has so far looked a liability defensively) as wingbacks. When we play with these players as wingbacks we're inviting pressure because they're not supporting our attacks properly or not defending well. What should be an offensive formation instead descends in to us conceding posession and sitting in our own half all game.

I think the majority of fans want Koeman to give Kenny a try yet he seems really reluctant to. I just don't understand why when despite Holgate being decent defensively Kenny is more suited to playing as a wingback.

I'm beginning to lose a bit of faith in RK and I'm concerned the bad form might continue even when we start playing weaker teams. I know we have players that need to gel but I'm not impressed by RK's tactics or selections so far this season.

 

[Zatara]

Brilliant article.

What are the one or two positions you'd focus on. A striker, surely. And for me a natural left sided player.

Good post.

I'm finding Koemans choice of ultra defensive tactics baffling, especially considering how badly the team is performing defensively due to some of the players he's picking.

I know our starting fixtures have been really tough and you might expect us to get a beat in a few of them but the manner in which we've lost them is worrying.

Koeman keeps on talking about us playing a pressing game yet I rarely see evidence of it on the pitch other than from some of our more mobile players. Even if we did implement a pressing game I don't believe we field enough players with pace to make it that effective.

We lack ability to counter with any pace and play with no width which is making us predictable and easier to counter. Most annoying thing is we have players like Lookman and Mirralas who would give us that but RK prefers to play Baines (who sits in his own half 90% of the time because his legs are gone) and/or Holgate (rarely gets forward) or Cuco (who for all he brings with his ability to cross has so far looked a liability defensively) as wingbacks. When we play with these players as wingbacks we're inviting pressure because they're not supporting our attacks properly or not defending well. What should be an offensive formation instead descends in to us conceding posession and sitting in our own half all game.

I think the majority of fans want Koeman to give Kenny a try yet he seems really reluctant to. I just don't understand why when despite Holgate being decent defensively Kenny is more suited to playing as a wingback.

I'm beginning to lose a bit of faith in RK and I'm concerned the bad form might continue even when we start playing weaker teams. I know we have players that need to gel but I'm not impressed by RK's tactics or selections so far this season.

So many people are highlighting the need for a striker, however I think we would look a different team if we had a top centre back and a top left back signed.

Fielding a really strong back 4 with pace who can pass the ball totally changes the game. To get better defensively weve played very deep under koeman with 2 defensive midfielders. If we had better defenders rather than the useless Cuco and the veterans Baines, Williams and Jagielka we would be able to play a high defensive line...

Opposition is further away from our goal and were closer to theirs...

Not rocket science. This would mean that our 'playmakers' would be passing the ball around the opposition box drawing fouls for Gylfi at the least.

Playing the deep defensive system as we are doing doesn't work unless we have players with pace like Lookman in the side...bizarre to bench him.

If it was me the priority signings would be a centre back and a left back + then third, a striker.

No point signing a striker now when were playing so deep.

 

[hallamblue]

Koeman at the moment is classic Moyes. Play ultra negative against the big sides, whinge about shopping at Aldi, knife to a gunfight etc. Difference is he had the opportunity to change the team and left us unbalanced. He needs to stop criticising the players and come up with a better plan.

 

[bluestevon]

We simply cant play with 3 centre backs when only Keane and Holgate can play that way, its ridiculous.

Klaassen was signed as he's Dutch and Ajax captain, theres no logic to it. Ive seen Ajax a fair bit last season and he's a good player in a league which allows time on the ball...he's not high energy like Davies or a playmaker...just passes quickly and has a cahill like ability to ghost into the box. At this level though he wont get any time...

Koeman has Lookman (who presses for England) DCL who presses and Vlasic who is full of energy and running...ive seen Sandro do it too for Spain youth. Yet none of them seem asked to do this for more than 15mins anyway...

Forward was a priority for a long long time...I think Walsh and Koeman have disagreed here on types of players to sign.

Individually we have some very good players with the caveat bring "in the right system", big problem is we don't have other types of players to make that system work.

Take each individually.

Sigurdsson is an excellent set piece player and deliver if a ball to be attacked in the box, but we lack any player in the squad capable of getting on the end of that service.

Klassen showed at Ajax he is very good at finding pockets of space and arriving late in the box - but to do that he needs a lot of movement and pace around him and width to creates those opportunities for him to exploit, we have none of that.

Rooney and Sandro both need a focal point to play off up top and both would benefit from again more movement around them, but we play very much in straight lines due to the usual partnership of gueye and schneiderlin not providing much going forward

So what we end up with is throwing 3-4 players in who all want to occupy the same space and it makes it painfully easy to defend against and then push us further and further back.

Sad to say but we have a reactive rather than a proactive manager, we set out to avoid losing as the priority, not set out with the mind set of winning.

 

[jceverton]

I enjoyed the post Zat. Lots of sense in here.

One point of many I'd expand on is Walshs role. He is not ring fully utilised if Koeman continues to dictate he wants expensive players with PL experience.

Post Lukaku if we had circa 55 million to spend and 10 went on Vlasic (good Walsh signing) there does have to be the question could it have been spent better? Could Walsh have had a bigger influence? Could Walsh have found us an attacker, left sided centre back and wide player for 45 million pounds? Previous evidence would indicate yes he probably could.

The question then becomes do we need a manager who can work to those conditions more naturally?

Yet Koeman did that under Les Reed at Southampton. I think part of the problem was that we didn't have an established system in place when Koeman was brought in. In addition when we did bring in a DOF he wasn't an experienced one. It certainly looks like Koeman has the main say in signing players though and the result would appear to be a bit of a mess.

If we are effectively operating in an upgraded sell to buy situation then letting a short term manager, like Koeman, have the main say in signings is madness. Once this Koeman debacle has played out I'd like to see Unsworth given a chance to bring the younger players through and work with Walsh as a proper DOF.

 

[jceverton]

Individually we have some very good players with the caveat bring "in the right system", big problem is we don't have other types of players to make that system work.

Take each individually.

Sigurdsson is an excellent set piece player and deliver if a ball to be attacked in the box, but we lack any player in the squad capable of getting on the end of that service.

Klassen showed at Ajax he is very good at finding pockets of space and arriving late in the box - but to do that he needs a lot of movement and pace around him and width to creates those opportunities for him to exploit, we have none of that.

Rooney and Sandro both need a focal point to play off up top and both would benefit from again more movement around them, but we play very much in straight lines due to the usual partnership of gueye and schneiderlin not providing much going forward

So what we end up with is throwing 3-4 players in who all want to occupy the same space and it makes it painfully easy to defend against and then push us further and further back.

Sad to say but we have a reactive rather than a proactive manager, we set out to avoid losing as the priority, not set out with the mind set of winning.

You've neatly summed up the problem. The question is how the hell do we get out of it? The answer in my opinion is not with Koeman.

 

[bring the ghost on]

No point signing a striker now when were playing so deep.

Of course we need a striker Zat, we just sold one who bags us 25 goals, what logic are you applying to suggest that we no longer need one?

 

[Prevenger17]

PLAY ALL THE YOUNG PEEPLE

 

[CerberusFX]

I agree with a lot of that Zatara, I am not so keen on just chucking all the young lads in at once though, it could damage them if we continue to play so poorly and they get scapegoated. Kenny however for me has to be at least given a chance until Coleman is back or he shows in fact he's not as readyn as we hope, although I suspect he is.

I have no idea about the attacking positions because they are all so similar in style. We need a natural #9 who is a bit more proven than DCL. I'm hoping this lot can click but the manager seems to be as confused as we are.

 

[naz]

So many people are highlighting the need for a striker, however I think we would look a different team if we had a top centre back and a top left back signed.

Fielding a really strong back 4 with pace who can pass the ball totally changes the game. To get better defensively weve played very deep under koeman with 2 defensive midfielders. If we had better defenders rather than the useless Cuco and the veterans Baines, Williams and Jagielka we would be able to play a high defensive line...

Opposition is further away from our goal and were closer to theirs...

Not rocket science. This would mean that our 'playmakers' would be passing the ball around the opposition box drawing fouls for Gylfi at the least.

Playing the deep defensive system as we are doing doesn't work unless we have players with pace like Lookman in the side...bizarre to bench him.

If it was me the priority signings would be a centre back and a left back + then third, a striker.

No point signing a striker now when were playing so deep.

Perhaps the tactics are dictated by the strength and weaknesses of the players Koeman has

 

[bluestevon]

You've neatly summed up the problem. The question is how the hell do we get out of it? The answer in my opinion is not with Koeman.

Maybe not mate.

A fear though is changing manager just repeats what we have now. A manager inheriting a hugely imbalanced squad who would then need to buy a fair few and ship a lot out.

A change in manager won't make a proper striker appear out if thin air, and won't change the problems we have made for ourselves by signing 4 players for 80-90m on huge wages...

 

[TraffordBlue]

I think we brought in some very good additions - Pickford, Keane and Sigurdsson. But the striker situation has left us weak in comparison to the top 6 and I fear that it will be our undoing in terms of progress unless we can grind out the required results to be in sight of the top 6 by January, and then bring in a good striker then.

I think Koeman needs to take a look at himself and make some changes. We went through a poor run of form last season and that was partly related to stubborn tactics and poor decisions back then. I think he will inevitably have to change things to make the team function in the best possible way for the players we have available.

For me, It is clearly not working having Martina as such a weak link in defence, Williams is in poor form so Holgate/Jagielka should be ahead of him, Davies needs a few starts in his proper position to get some form going, and he needs to stop shoving Klaassen, Rooney and Sigurdsson in the same team. It should be 2 of those 3 with Calvert Lewin up front in my opinion.

 

[jceverton]

Maybe not mate.

A fear though is changing manager just repeats what we have now. A manager inheriting a hugely imbalanced squad who would then need to buy a fair few and ship a lot out.

A change in manager won't make a proper striker appear out if thin air, and won't change the problems we have made for ourselves by signing 4 players for 80-90m on huge wages...

Someone is going to have to sort it out and I have little faith that the guy who got us into this mess is the one to do that. At some point I think we'll have to pull the trigger on Koeman. But before that happens there needs to be total clarity on how Walsh is going to work as a DOF and are we buy to sell? The answers to those two questions will determine what type of coach/manager we are looking for.