The identify paradox: modern club or traditional institution looking out for the fans and community?

[brieverton]

Change has come and there will be more of it.

It's been said to death but it's just now we are emerging from a time warp since the end of the 1980s and look ready to be a modern Premier League club, befitting the commercial realities of the game in 2025, fully 35 years later.

I don't like all that modernity has brought, in fact I dislike almost all of it but things are they way they are now. It's the fans that will pay for the stadium.

The question is are we going to have a version of success for all of this commercialism and modernity or are we going to have nothing to show for it?

If not then it seems like an awful lot of wasted change and wasted effort for nothing - for existing, for mediocrity, or worse. It's not like money hasn't been wasted here before. I'll say less about effort, as most of it was misguided and not in the best interests of the club.

I take some heart that we've been decades behind and still come out of it with PL status intact and with a magnificent new stadium, one for the ages. Points deductions, madcap ownership, Russia, headlock gate, total chaos.

What would it be like with progressive, ambitious, resourced, competent ownership and management? Do we have that now?

Still we're standing. I understand the cost of living realities for the everyday fan, myself included. I'm prepared to contribute a little more if it results in a restoration of the club we once were, even to a degree. But you have to stump up first and await the outcome, and go on a little bit of faith. If you can't or won't, then it's time to find something else to worry about.

 

[Bluewater]

We're run by hand nosed Amwrican business people. The same type of Yanks that 'own' the premier league and football worldwide - FIFA. For these people, nostalgia/romanticism is to be used to increase income and influence. We had no choice though, either we joined them or we withered on the vine.

 

[degsy]

I've noticed a theme amongst threads on here, the tension between the desire to not be run like a clown show and the sharp edge of acting like a hard nosed business, like the current big boys.

It creates a bit of a paradox. On one hand, the wish to be a big player and restore former glories. On the other, the club acting like certain other commerce hungry teams and doing things that actually feel uncomfortable. That we sometimes mock other clubs for.

With every instance of £6 or £7 pints, £650 seats for Sunderland games, or renaming the new stadium is the slow move from, well, the club rooted in its community and showing respect to its fanbase.

Where do you stand? Is this a necessary evil to fund the squad and compete? Going too far? Or do you wish to find a pragmatic middle ground?

The middle ground must exist somewhere
The TFG...and tbf, others 'Squeeze the punter until the pips squeak' the Levy-esque financial hardball is a top down thing will eventually turn people away.
And unless the team performs disenchantment will come all the sooner

The, for want of a better word,'nice face' of football capitalism must be a local - middle management led flexible outwards thing - one size doesn't fit all

 

[JelavicBrate2]

It's either be a big club - with all the extra cost, opportunity and expectation of success that brings - or embrace The Championship as a fallen throwback.

ToffeeTV are still insisting that "going the match" is not event. They are going to struggle with this...

On the upside, this will place the kinds of demands on our new overlords that Kenwright masterfully batted away for decades. As he kept us as his own personal benevolent charity (with none of the expense of top facilities or success), he was no under no real pressure to have us punch our weight. These Americans are and will be. You can't charge a fortune for The Dychey and Woany Show featuring "the Duke" and Jack Harrison.

My issue as I've said on other threads is Premier League and Sky sports use working class partizan supporters to sell product, yet at same time want to remove said fans. Sky were only too happy to moan, about our fans not being loud enough when we played City and RS were going for title. Without your average fan Premier League would be boring to watch. Also I don't know where people think this new brand of Everton fan is going to come from. North West has loads of clubs, Man City have struggled to fill their ground at times, despite their recent success. I don't know what planet some on here are on, I don't think there's huge numbers of more affluent fans who are suddenly going to support Everton, because we've got a new stadium. It's only RS, United, Arsenal and Chelsea who have legions of glory hunters following them. Everyone else just has regular supporters.

 

[davek]

We are at a crossroads and have to decide whether we follow the well trodden path of other commercially focused football clubs or opt for a hybrid approach which reflects our origins,ethos,community as well as being more commercial but not rapaciously so.
cf: LFC and MUFC

We can learn from other clubs on what works commercially but also ensure we don’t introduce cynical money raising policies that really irk loyal supporters. If we try to screw every penny out of supporters then it will be a real own goal by the club’s leadership.

Until we actually win something and be challenging on a more consistent basis there will be a ceiling to our revenues and do we think we will ever match LFCs anyway?

The club need to really drive the local aspect of Everton and it’s rightful place in the history of football and the City of Liverpool.We need to be bold and reclaim the City as our home and aspire to be the club of the people of the City.
Evertonians have a responsibility to challenge and demand more from the Club’s executive management and Board a bit more assertively than we do currently and not just complaining on message boards.

If we lose that local connection and become a destination for increasing number of tourist fans then we will have sacrificed the passion and spirit that has saved us from perilously disastrous outcomes in favour of fleeting and unpredictable commercial revenues that will reduce quickly if expectations are not met on the pitch.

The winds of change are blowing through Bramley Moore but we don’t know yet where they will take us.

Agree with this.

It's not a done deal that we inevitably fall under the juggernaut of rampant commercialism and lose our identity.

The stadium facility shouldn't be just accepted as a vehicle for commercial forces to exploit fans. It's just a stadium with new technologies and eyeline advantages over Goodison. Like everything else there'll be a struggle over what it's there to do and for whom it should benefit.

It's the age old struggle between use and exchange value. There'll be struggles for however long this stadium is there over how far commodification can be pushed. Just like every other area of our lives like health, housing, education etc etc.

If the club believes independent fan organisations have been left behind at Goodison and that the poodle FAB group are the blunt cutting edge they can just simply bypass or pay lip service to with no other opposition to reckon with they'll be in for a rude awakening. Those more militant fans made the transition to the new stadium too - and once every one clears their heads and stops being dazzled by the novelty of the new stadium there'll be a backlash by fans against exploitative practices. I'm certain of that.

The fans are not just consumers, they also produce the spectacle. We have a lot of power and I dont accept for one second the pessimism over the inevitability of sinking into a corporate pit.

 

[Iana]

I was pleasantly surprised that all of the new hospitality offerings sold out so quickly. I know there is an increase in demand due to the new stadium factor but most of those people buying have committed to a 3 year contract.
The clubs task is to establish whether it can squeeze a little more out of 7-10,000 “premium customers” over time whilst holding general ticket prices at fair prices. However, the standard of the offering will need to be improved if they adopt that approach.

 

[pfim]

More of a contradiction than a paradox.

Also, a contradiction doesn't necessarily have to exist - it just depends on how a stadium is run and what decisions are made in terms of exploitation of the corporate world and non-match day events and whether the club also want to squeeze fans on top of that. There should be a subsidisation of ticketing if our stadiums are going to be used as bill boards for companies and for use as multi-event facilities.

And I think that choice comes down to the type of owner you have: how much they are and what motive they have for being in football ownership.

I've said for ages the fan demographic will change and our unique identity will be eliminated or at least come under serious threat. The novelty of the new stadium shouldn't be allowed to obscure our hard won culture as a fanbase.

I'm going for a bike ride to think more about this...

Unfortunately Dave, if we are to keep up, new revenue streams must be created and all must be maximized.

What we will be able to spend on the squad now has less to do with the wealth of the owner, and more to do with how much revenue we generate.

The only way to change is to not participate. Obviously not going to matches is tough, but if you don't want to see 7 pound pints, don't buy them (in mass). The price will eventually change as less money will be made.

 

[davek]

Unfortunately Dave, if we are to keep up, new revenue streams must be created and all must be maximized.

What we will be able to spend on the squad now has less to do with the wealth of the owner, and more to do with how much revenue we generate.

The only way to change is to not participate. Obviously not going to matches is tough, but if you don't want to see 7 pound pints, don't buy them (in mass). The price will eventually change as less money will be made.

I dont disagree that fans will be paying more. But I think what's coming across loud and clear in terms of membership fees and prices for food and drink is that this lot are pushing the envelope - and they'll get away with that until fuss about the stadium does down. It's a shock and awe tactic they're using here to kick this stadium off. That wont be allowed to last is my point.

And there's no inevitability about exploiting fans as much as you can exploit commercial organisations as sponsors or users of the facility. Where and when was that rule written? I seem to remember a lot of talk on here during the stadium build that we need more corporate in to cross subsidise ticket prices. Has that all just been forgotten now?

No mate, I believe that conflict and and opposition is something that goes with every organisation. Pushback is baked into them. That's because we are free thinking humans and not drones to be constantly exploited.

 

[Alan Whittle]

Do it right.

The club is what it is with symbiosis with the fans. The fans wouldn't exist without the club, the club would never gave been what it is without the fans paying to watch over decades.

Do right by the fans, first and foremost. That extra £2 a pint isn't going to the club and transfers, its going to concessions anyway.

Sad to say that if a club can find enough customers it won’t need any irritating fans. Every club in the PL and quite a few in The Championship are actively engaged in this transformation whilst in complete denial that they are.

 

[pfim]

I dont disagree that fans will be paying more. But I think what's coming across loud and clear in terms of membership fees and prices for food and drink is that this lot are pushing the envelope - and they'll get away with that until fuss about the stadium does down. It's a shock and awe tactic they're using here to kick this stadium off. That wont be allowed to last is my point.

And there's no inevitability about exploiting fans as much as you can exploit commercial organisations as sponsors or users of the facility. Where and when was that rule written? I seem to remember a lot of talk on here during the stadium build that we need more corporate in to cross subsidise ticket prices. Has that all just been forgotten now?

No mate, I believe that conflict and and opposition is something that goes with every organisation. Pushback is baked into them. That's because we are free thinking humans and not drones to be constantly exploited.

Most clubs already do this, we are just catching up.

If we get more corporate sponsorship, it will pale in comparison to others above us.

If we find new revenue streams, we'll be copied and it will be matched or exceeded.

There are always limits to this, of course. But they're dictated by the supply/demand curve and not by some benevolence or altruistic vision of what a club should be.

Josh Wander, for his many (many) flaws was right, the club will need to find ways to monetize the customer. He was just dumb enough to say the obvious out loud.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

The PL is a blight on football.
It’s a money oriented commercial vehicle for corporate interests and sportswashing dubious regimes.
It isn’t just destroying the historic community based fabric of the game here , it’s malign influence spreads to the continent and beyond , forcing other leagues to compete with it to ensure their own existence as viable competitors.
And we are part of it .
I travel over to follow a team in Germany a lot now (actually two ) when we are playing away.
I am not a supporter of those teams , just a follower, but I find the Bundesliga experience far more enjoyable and a better experience generally. It acts as an antidote , reminds me of how football could be . Also less costly even with the travel.
The Bundesliga like other leagues is under financial pressure to ape the behemoth that is the PL , and I suppose will inevitably continue to drift in that direction.
It’s sad , but that’s life .
Here not enough cared or at least cared enough to resist , that’s the saddest part.

 

[Jimmy Flangemoth]

''Everton will lose its identity, culture, and traditional fanbase.''

You all sound like Reform voters. Embrace the coming diversity, you bigots.

NORWEIGIANS WELCOME HERE!

 

[Toffe3m4n]

Agree with this.

It's not a done deal that we inevitably fall under the juggernaut of rampant commercialism and lose our identity.

The stadium facility shouldn't be just accepted as a vehicle for commercial forces to exploit fans. It's just a stadium with new technologies and eyeline advantages over Goodison. Like everything else there'll be a struggle over what it's there to do and for whom it should benefit.

It's the age old struggle between use and exchange value. There'll be struggles for however long this stadium is there over how far commodification can be pushed. Just like every other area of our lives like health, housing, education etc etc.

If the club believes independent fan organisations have been left behind at Goodison and that the poodle FAB group are the blunt cutting edge they can just simply bypass or pay lip service to with no other opposition to reckon with they'll be in for a rude awakening. Those more militant fans made the transition to the new stadium too - and once every one clears their heads and stops being dazzled by the novelty of the new stadium there'll be a backlash by fans against exploitative practices. I'm certain of that.

The fans are not just consumers, they also produce the spectacle. We have a lot of power and I dont accept for one second the pessimism over the inevitability of sinking into a corporate pit.

Dave you do make some pertinent points here, but I'll be honest with you...

As long as things are going well on the football pitch, the vast majority of Evertonians won't care a jot about the gradual 'commercialisation' of the club as they'll swiftly accept it as the means to the end when it comes to seeing any success in this modern age of the game. Those 'militant fans' will, rightly or wrongly, fall into the minority as time goes on.

 

[windymiller]

It was inevitable that with new SportCorp style ownership and a big shiny new stadium that the club would become more of a business and less of a community asset. The break with our history at Goodison offered the owners an opportunity to recast the business and they were always going to do it.

The risk, at least in my eyes, is that you end up pricing out the next generation of fans from the locality and end up increasingly relying on the tourist fan for ticket sales. That's a decent money making strategy for a club with a lot of global support, tourists are more likely to buy merch, are more likely to spend money in the stadium on food and drink rather than in local, non-club owned, alternatives, and are more likely to buy premium tickets at a big markup. However, do we have the market to sustain that? We haven't won anything in a long, long time. For a couple of years the new stadium will act as it's own draw but that will fade. If demand drops will the local populace have become disenfranchised and/or priced out?

TL : DR - we need to improve fast on the pitch to sustain the price rises. Locals are no longer a priority for the club.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Dave you do make some pertinent points here, but I'll be honest with you...

As long as things are going well on the football pitch, the vast majority of Evertonians won't care a jot about the gradual 'commercialisation' of the club as they'll swiftly accept it as the means to the end when it comes to seeing any success in this modern age of the game. Those 'militant fans' will, rightly or wrongly, fall into the minority as time goes on.

I don’t doubt this is true at all.
The is being increasingly gentrified .
The working class is being deliberately eased out by pricing policies.
What’s left are crowds consisting primarily of middle class cos playing football supporters.