Taken for Granted...

[GhostOfDixie]

I don't pay to watch Everton anymore. I pay for Sky, because I want to watch more than just the shower of [Poor language removed] at Goodison. I don't want to be fleeced by a club who promise, but fail to deliver.

They try and offer us something which they think we want, but we don't. They are devoid of ideas throughout the club. From the chairman to the manager, from the catering manager to the guy who has organised the poor man's Soccer AM goal game.

They want to be big, they think by spending £15m on deadline hour is going to appease the fans, well its not. He may well turn out to be mustard, but £15m is a [Poor language removed] lot of money when you think of how much Cahill, Lescott and Pienaar cost.

But more than anything they have dismissed the fans completely, and have these past few years treated them poorly. Expected the coin, but very rarely delivered anything. They expect us to be grateful, but what exactly have we been given in return?

One [Poor language removed] trophy in 21 years, two if you include the Charity Shield. For a club of our history, and success, for our past players, past managers. This club needs to think about what it is doing. It can stop think and say ok, this is the Blueprint, this is going to take ten years to happen, and I would say fine. You have a plan, and great. But I really don't think that is the case. I think they piggy back other club's and other establishments ideas, they try and appease the fans with quick fixes, and hope for a derby win to buy them some more time.

Ever since Kenwright got the position we have been threadbare as a squad. We have needed cash injection to build the squad, to give the club a chance to win trophies. We don't win trophies because we have a small squad. It's almost ten years since he took over, and are we better off? Well it would appear not.

Feel better that I have got something off my chest, because I'm just sick of the predictability and dour performances that we have to endure just when we have the opportunity to push on.

 

[coyney]

I don't pay to watch Everton anymore. I pay for Sky, because I want to watch more than just the shower of [Poor language removed] at Goodison. I don't want to be fleeced by a club who promise, but fail to deliver.

They try and offer us something which they think we want, but we don't. They are devoid of ideas throughout the club. From the chairman to the manager, from the catering manager to the guy who has organised the poor man's Soccer AM goal game.

They want to be big, they think by spending £15m on deadline hour is going to appease the fans, well its not. He may well turn out to be mustard, but £15m is a [Poor language removed] lot of money when you think of how much Cahill, Lescott and Pienaar cost.

But more than anything they have dismissed the fans completely, and have these past few years treated them poorly. Expected the coin, but very rarely delivered anything. They expect us to be grateful, but what exactly have we been given in return?

One [Poor language removed] trophy in 21 years, two if you include the Charity Shield. For a club of our history, and success, for our past players, past managers. This club needs to think about what it is doing. It can stop think and say ok, this is the Blueprint, this is going to take ten years to happen, and I would say fine. You have a plan, and great. But I really don't think that is the case. I think they piggy back other club's and other establishments ideas, they try and appease the fans with quick fixes, and hope for a derby win to buy them some more time.

Ever since Kenwright got the position we have been threadbare as a squad. We have needed cash injection to build the squad, to give the club a chance to win trophies. We don't win trophies because we have a small squad. It's almost ten years since he took over, and are we better off? Well it would appear not.

Feel better that I have got something off my chest, because I'm just sick of the predictability and dour performances that we have to endure just when we have the opportunity to push on.

Sadly Nick thats being an Evertonian is all about in 50 years of going there have been more lows than highs but every time I cant go to the game I feel cheated .my Grandson asked could he have Monday off school coming out of the ground today and I felt for him I also agree that the standard of football is not worth the £1000 it cost for the season tickets but god willing I will do the same next season why maybe I'm stupid or want my grandson to experiance some of the joy I have had although up to now its been the heart ache. its what the club know will happen,Bill can lie and lie and I will rant and rave but not go, no I'm to weak although I can understand it if people dont go for a start ITS over priced for the standard received but nothing will change until Kenwright sells up and even then who knows if new owners will be better look across the park its no bed of roses there either. so whats the answer I honestly dont know ,but Nick I know you work hard for your money and are well within your rights to turn your back but you will find it hard mate,your a blue too

 

[neonleon]

I don't pay to watch Everton anymore. I pay for Sky, because I want to watch more than just the shower of [Poor language removed] at Goodison. I don't want to be fleeced by a club who promise, but fail to deliver.

They try and offer us something which they think we want, but we don't. They are devoid of ideas throughout the club. From the chairman to the manager, from the catering manager to the guy who has organised the poor man's Soccer AM goal game.

They want to be big, they think by spending £15m on deadline hour is going to appease the fans, well its not. He may well turn out to be mustard, but £15m is a [Poor language removed] lot of money when you think of how much Cahill, Lescott and Pienaar cost.

But more than anything they have dismissed the fans completely, and have these past few years treated them poorly. Expected the coin, but very rarely delivered anything. They expect us to be grateful, but what exactly have we been given in return?

One [Poor language removed] trophy in 21 years, two if you include the Charity Shield. For a club of our history, and success, for our past players, past managers. This club needs to think about what it is doing. It can stop think and say ok, this is the Blueprint, this is going to take ten years to happen, and I would say fine. You have a plan, and great. But I really don't think that is the case. I think they piggy back other club's and other establishments ideas, they try and appease the fans with quick fixes, and hope for a derby win to buy them some more time.

Ever since Kenwright got the position we have been threadbare as a squad. We have needed cash injection to build the squad, to give the club a chance to win trophies. We don't win trophies because we have a small squad. It's almost ten years since he took over, and are we better off? Well it would appear not.

Feel better that I have got something off my chest, because I'm just sick of the predictability and dour performances that we have to endure just when we have the opportunity to push on.

A cursory look at any bookmakers odds will inform that Evertons chance of winning the league, the FA Cup or any silverware are minimal in comparison with other clubs, particularly the top four clubs.

But Everton under Moyes have steadily improved to be a club that qualifies for europe via the league most seasons. This from a starting position of fighting relegation - and without spending significant money in comparison to the other clubs about us and the top four.

Everton have shown much promise in the last few seasons, but I think you confuse this with them promising you derby wins or trophies or whatever. Moyes or Kenwright or EFC have never promised you a win? What the [Poor language removed]?

Criticising Moyes for spending 15million? He's our manager, if he wants a player and he costs 15 million and we spend it then whats wrong with that? You'd be criticising his lack of ambition if a big money signing hadn't materialised. As for Moyes spending to appease fans - come on. Moyes just doesn't do that - that's what they do at Spurs not EFC.

Treating fans poorly? Did you support Everton when Walter Smith was our manager? As for what the club gives us - well what do you expect? its a football club, they play football and we watch them. Presumably its all about winning for you, this is your gist no doubt motivated by you throwing your toys out of the pram after the latest derby loss.

In the dark days all we had were the derby games, because other than that the league was irrelevant. These days the league is important to us, and sometimes we get european football - EFC have been giving more to fans, not less. Unfortunately, due more to lack of funds than anything, we've gone backwards a bit this season, but if you plotted progress under Moyes you'll see the trend is upward. We've gone from a side that could barely stay in the league to a side that can battle in europe.

Yes our squad is threadbare. However some of this has been a tactic of Moyes, keeping a small versatile squad - playing the same players rather than rotating, improving morale and coaching by concentrating on a small nucleus of talented players who trust each other. Moyes has had and is still implementing a plan. You don't get outspent by ten to twelve teams every year and finish 5th place in the league by chance. His plan has shown promise and already paid dividends.

In fact you look at Middlesborough and some other clubs who have taken Everton's ideas and tried to implement them themselves - so rather than being a centre of received ideas, it is other clubs who have taken evertons blueprint - so successful has it been in keeping a club competitive within financial restraints.

Moyes is not a quick fix manager and never will be, where you get this from I don't know.

As for the statement that "We don't win trophies because we have a small squad." Well Spurs chop and change and have a large squad. Doesn't always help them. Sunderland have a massive squad, when did they last win anything?

Sorry but that statement is a [Poor language removed] joke. We can either buy twenty players at 1 or 2 million each and have a massive squad or we can buy one or two great players a season. I prefer Moyes approach, even if he is coming to the conclusion that to sustain a squad in europe as well as domestic competitions means that he will have to expand the size of the squad.

You are not being realistic, your being childish. Hitting out because we lost the derby. Get over it. Its sport, we played the game and we lost. We'll play them again. And we'll lose again. We'll also beat them again.

Supporting Everton isn't about glory hunting or just winning things. It's about the character of the club, the players and the fans, the history, the magic, the hairs on the back of your neck standing up when you climb the stairs at Goodison Park and see the green pitch in front of you, the sound of z-cars as the lads run onto the pitch.

If you just want to bask in the reflected glory of silverware, man united and their ilk will gladly accept a supporter like you.

we lost the battle against Liverpool today, but we didn't lose the war.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Well said Leon.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

So everything is fine and dandy, no problems. We are really going places at the moment? The Derby match is just the icing on a very poorly made cake. We have been poor for most of the last 17 games since we got beaten by Fiorintina.

Of course I want silverware, what the [Poor language removed] is the point of supporting a football club with Everton's history, size and potential if you don't want silverware? But more than that I want to be entertained, and if you and Bruce want to go around with your head in the sand, then you go ahead. Most of us realise that this club have [Poor language removed] up twice when it really matters.

I also think Fellaini will be a good player, but I don't think he's worth 15m. I would have rather seen us buy 3 or 4 players of Cahill's potential.

I'm also not being childish, I'm being honest and realistic on how I feel after watching us slump to another defeat by [Poor language removed] defending. The fact that it was against a great striker has [Poor language removed] me off, and the fact I have to endure plastic fans giving it the big one has [Poor language removed] me off even more.

But this is not just about the Derby,

 

[harry]

Ghost agree with everything you say and you have hit the nail on the head "we want to be entertained" We was all on here the other week (incuding myself) slagging stoke off for the way they play the game. we are one of the most predictable and boring sides in the prem, we need to change the way we play or more people will follow ghost and stop payeing to watch utter [Poor language removed].

 

[Axlswhk]

15m for fellaini? Someone got to be hang!

 

[davek]

Leon, go and look up the word 'Expectation'.

The bar has been raised and supporters wont take kindly to playing staff, managers or club owners who dont meet the challenge. I found your post the most depressing of the weekend. It screams out that we are second or third rate and will always remain that way because that's just the way it is. Well, to quote your words: 'football is a sport', and in sport you have the right to demand success as well as be realistic about failure. Your point of view is bound to fail with Everton supporters though, because many of us have actually witnessed our club winning trophies. We wont accept mediocrity or worse from those charged with making our dreams a reality. We're in no mood to accept the desolation on offer from you.

 

[Duncan9]

On this occasion, Mr. Ghost, I could not agree more !

 

[Duncan'sReplacmentKnees]

Leonbil - spot on.

 

[neonleon]

Leon, go and look up the word 'Expectation'.

The bar has been raised and supporters wont take kindly to playing staff, managers or club owners who dont meet the challenge. I found your post the most depressing of the weekend. It screams out that we are second or third rate and will always remain that way because that's just the way it is. Well, to quote your words: 'football is a sport', and in sport you have the right to demand success as well as be realistic about failure. Your point of view is bound to fail with Everton supporters though, because many of us have actually witnessed our club winning trophies. We wont accept mediocrity or worse from those charged with making our dreams a reality. We're in no mood to accept the desolation on offer from you.

Whilst I'm flipping through the dictionary I'll look up the word realism for you as well. The bar has been raised because Moyes and his squad raised it himself. Yes you can demand success, and you can scream and stamp your feet if you want if it doesn't come. Real success against a handicap of relative poverty is going to take time.

My point of view is bound to fail? I've witnessed our club winning trophies, how old do you think I am? NSNO applies to the supporters as well as the players, the manager and the club.

What kind of desolation am I offering, I posted nothing fatalistic or pessimistic? I said nothing about being third rate or we lost because that's just the way it is. I am not happy with losing the derby but can consider it within the context of year on year improvement (mostly).

The club need money end off. How many teams have finished recently in the top six without stacks of money? Everton and Bolton (some seasons back) are the only ones. We are punching above our weight and have been for sometime.

Fans calling the team [Poor language removed] and slagging the manager off and all the players is no more likely to facilitate effective change as banging your head against a brick all - if anything it will lower morale.

Emotions are bouncing off the walls at Newcastle at the moment. The fans wanted Owen, they got Owen. They want Keegan back and they got that. They wanted a new owner and they got that. Then they want him to sell up and they are getting that. Not uprooting trees are they?

But your suggestion seems to be the magic solution is to moan and **** the club, the players and the manager off, somehow that'll do what precisely?

My post wasn't stating we should accept mediocrity. Just that there are more things in being a fan than winning games. The character of the club for one. And until we get significant investment chances are we will struggle to break into the top four, or even the top six.

But the day will come when we will win the league again and lift trophies in europe and the day will be more significant for all the dark days that have passed in between.

My point was, its about character.

 

[billytoffee]

Leon, go and look up the word 'Expectation'.

The bar has been raised and supporters wont take kindly to playing staff, managers or club owners who dont meet the challenge. I found your post the most depressing of the weekend. It screams out that we are second or third rate and will always remain that way because that's just the way it is. Well, to quote your words: 'football is a sport', and in sport you have the right to demand success as well as be realistic about failure. Your point of view is bound to fail with Everton supporters though, because many of us have actually witnessed our club winning trophies. We wont accept mediocrity or worse from those charged with making our dreams a reality. We're in no mood to accept the desolation on offer from you.

Davek - as someone who has also lived through and experienced some of our more glorious times I fully support the sentiment that we should not accept mediocrity. But at the same time as you say we have to be realistic about failure then we also have to be realistic about expectation.

So what is a realistic expectation for us ?

I'm not sure I know anymore - I start each season hopeful that this is going to be it - that we will win the FA cup and get a champions league slot - that his will then be the spring board to the leaugue title the following year and that hey presto we are back were we belong.

I know what the word expectation means but as an evertonian when the word is placed into a small phrase with the word realistic then who knows - it could mean anything.

The soothsayers will tell us that relaistic expecation for this season is already along the lines of avoid relegation.

The deluded or criminally insane will still say we can win a treble - leaugue, FA Cup, UEFA Cup.

I'm up for the Treble

Must try that 118 118 thing for a new shrink

COYB

 

[davek]

Whilst I'm flipping through the dictionary I'll look up the word realism for you as well. The bar has been raised because Moyes and his squad raised it himself. Yes you can demand success, and you can scream and stamp your feet if you want if it doesn't come. Real success against a handicap of relative poverty is going to take time.

My point of view is bound to fail? I've witnessed our club winning trophies, how old do you think I am? NSNO applies to the supporters as well as the players, the manager and the club.

What kind of desolation am I offering, I posted nothing fatalistic or pessimistic? I said nothing about being third rate or we lost because that's just the way it is. I am not happy with losing the derby but can consider it within the context of year on year improvement (mostly).

The club need money end off. How many teams have finished recently in the top six without stacks of money? Everton and Bolton (some seasons back) are the only ones. We are punching above our weight and have been for sometime.

Fans calling the team [Poor language removed] and slagging the manager off and all the players is no more likely to facilitate effective change as banging your head against a brick all - if anything it will lower morale.

Emotions are bouncing off the walls at Newcastle at the moment. The fans wanted Owen, they got Owen. They want Keegan back and they got that. They wanted a new owner and they got that. Then they want him to sell up and they are getting that. Not uprooting trees are they?

But your suggestion seems to be the magic solution is to moan and **** the club, the players and the manager off, somehow that'll do what precisely?

My post wasn't stating we should accept mediocrity. Just that there are more things in being a fan than winning games. The character of the club for one. And until we get significant investment chances are we will struggle to break into the top four, or even the top six.

But the day will come when we will win the league again and lift trophies in europe and the day will be more significant for all the dark days that have passed in between.

My point was, its about character.

I'm well versed in this club's traditions and I dont downplay them. I know there's more to football than winning trophies, and I dont expect success...but I'll demand it of the club. My gripe isn't with Moyes either, as he's one of our saving graces...a man who craves success unlike the men he's carried on his back for 6 years and a man who'll now have to carry the can for them when all the fickle fans turn on him as they've already begun to.

You say it's all about character. Since 1995 we've won nothing, so I think we all have bucketloads of the stuff. But character and loyalty can be taken for granted and you can't afford to overplay that hand, as the post from Ghost attests to.

 

[davek]

Davek - as someone who has also lived through and experienced some of our more glorious times I fully support the sentiment that we should not accept mediocrity. But at the same time as you say we have to be realistic about failure then we also have to be realistic about expectation.

So what is a realistic expectation for us ?

I'm not sure I know anymore - I start each season hopeful that this is going to be it - that we will win the FA cup and get a champions league slot - that his will then be the spring board to the leaugue title the following year and that hey presto we are back were we belong.

I know what the word expectation means but as an evertonian when the word is placed into a small phrase with the word realistic then who knows - it could mean anything.

The soothsayers will tell us that relaistic expecation for this season is already along the lines of avoid relegation.

The deluded or criminally insane will still say we can win a treble - leaugue, FA Cup, UEFA Cup.

I'm up for the Treble

Must try that 118 118 thing for a new shrink

COYB

I thought a realistic target for this season would have been to challenge for a CL place, poach a Carling Cup/FA Cup win (as those giants of English football M'boro, Spurs and Portsmouth have done in living memory) and to get further than last season in Europe. Of course, all that was predicated on fullfilling expectations in the summer transfer window.

Ho hum.

 

[neonleon]

I'm well versed in this club's traditions and I dont downplay them. I know there's more to football than winning trophies, and I dont expect success...but I'll demand it of the club. My gripe isn't with Moyes either, as he's one of our saving graces...a man who craves success unlike the men he's carried on his back for 6 years and a man who'll now have to carry the can for them when all the fickle fans turn on him as they've already begun to.

You say it's all about character. Since 1995 we've won nothing, so I think we all have bucketloads of the stuff. But character and loyalty can be taken for granted and you can't afford to overplay that hand, as the post from Ghost attests to.

fair enough. I still don't see how I was offering desolation.

I'm not happy about the season so far. Not happy about the derby defeat or more precisely the manner of the derby defeat (one of our worst performances for many a year, they beat us comprehensively all over the pitch, including worringly in desire and passion).
Not happy how the summer transfer policy was conducted. Not happy Moyes hasn't signed his contract. Or how we've played in europe.

I just think we need to see it all in perspective. If we go backwards for season after season that's a different matter altogether.