Style of play

[flibbyflob]

Slow slow quick quick slow but we miss the quick quick out this season.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

No off the ball movement, at all. The only players who look like making v moves are mirallas and Barkley, Naisy will do it if the opportunity arrives but as for making chances that's very rare.

 

[nsno-chris]

This is easy to write but for me doesnt really have any basis in reality. We play balls forward and direct. We also pass across the field slowly waiting for a gap to move into. We also pass aimlessly at the back.

We do all the above. We just dont do it very well right now. Not a single player is in top form for a full 90 minutes, never mind a couple games in a row or the whole season.

The ball gets miscontrolled....the passes are astray....the whole thing breaks down, and then the more it happens the more reluctant we are to play those balls out that you are looking for.

Unless you are Bossic and then you dont seem to care if we are in poor form and ping it about anyways!

We don't change the gameplay, we are set up for possession football from the get-go in every game; retention of the ball is number one priority. Hitting a ball long is not a change of gameplan, its a last resort when no other options are available. Playing a fast direct game would involve the front 3/4 pressed high, with balls aimed into the channels to push the opposition back and force them to turn, a bit like the RS last year.

Putting this disaster down to players form is just not acceptable after 18 games, because its not form. Its clear to see we have no ideas when the opposition setup to press us and defend deep.

Moyes struggled when teams used to put 10 behind the ball and he was called clueless, nothing is different with this situation. Teams know how to set-up against, its as clear as day

 

[Pabbers]

We should do the opposite of what we do, when we lose.

 

[bicycleheader]

We don't change the gameplay, we are set up for possession football from the get-go in every game; retention of the ball is number one priority. Hitting a ball long is not a change of gameplan, its a last resort when no other options are available. Playing a fast direct game would involve the front 3/4 pressed high, with balls aimed into the channels to push the opposition back and force them to turn, a bit like the RS last year.

Putting this disaster down to players form is just not acceptable after 18 games, because its not form. Its clear to see we have no ideas when the opposition setup to press us and defend deep.

Moyes struggled when teams used to put 10 behind the ball and he was called clueless, nothing is different with this situation. Teams know how to set-up against, its as clear as day

Fair enough. Isnt it also clear as day that players are passing poorly, not making 50-50 balls and miscontrolling regularly. Also failing to beat their man when they would have last season?

Isnt it possible that this is form, and confidence and low morale...perhaps aswell as our tactics being found out a bit?

I just think people are being too black & white on all this. You make some good points, but must acknowledge the many other factors.

The manager doesn't make the ref err with the red card, doesnt make Mccarthy defend poorly and doesnt cause Kev missing a good chance. These going a different way...and the examples in other games too....will have an impact on confidence and morale, and this in turn will mean whatever tactics we try to implement should work better.

I put it that the players will not automatically look better if we started suddenly making the decisions some of the fans are putting forward as DEFINITE solutions. Simply because we dont have a player playing well every week.

 

[royalbalou]

We've been found out ...teams press us high up now and we can't cope...hence change the system...it's not bloody working ffs

 

[roydo]

Last season would be good.

 

[nsno-chris]

Fair enough. Isnt it also clear as day that players are passing poorly, not making 50-50 balls and miscontrolling regularly. Also failing to beat their man when they would have last season?

Isnt it possible that this is form, and confidence and low morale...perhaps aswell as our tactics being found out a bit?

I just think people are being too black & white on all this. You make some good points, but must acknowledge the many other factors.

The manager doesn't make the ref err with the red card, doesnt make Mccarthy defend poorly and doesnt cause Kev missing a good chance. These going a different way...and the examples in other games too....will have an impact on confidence and morale, and this in turn will mean whatever tactics we try to implement should work better.

I put it that the players will not automatically look better if we started suddenly making the decisions some of the fans are putting forward as DEFINITE solutions. Simply because we dont have a player playing well every week.

The it all comes back to the manager, apart from ref decisions

If professional footballs are constantly miscontrolling the ball and not passing to their own team then they should be dropped, especially after 18 games. When we are not creating chances and we are doing the same thing week in week out, things need to be addressed, which they are not.

Living off hope and scraps that a couple of chances are being missed in every game does not compensate for the awful football we have been witnessing from the start of the season.

The bottom line is that teams can kill us dead by setting up with a simple game plan

 

[bicycleheader]

The it all comes back to the manager, apart from ref decisions

If professional footballs are constantly miscontrolling the ball and not passing to their own team then they should be dropped, especially after 18 games. When we are not creating chances and we are doing the same thing week in week out, things need to be addressed, which they are not.

Living off hope and scraps that a couple of chances are being missed in every game does not compensate for the awful football we have been witnessing from the start of the season.

The bottom line is that teams can kill us dead by setting up with a simple game plan

I dont think its as simple as...it all come backs to the manager. Said it elsewhere today, that is just Sun Back Page football thinking IMO.

You surely would agree that all players look off.....there is no noticeable drop him and bring in him situations that have improved us noticeably to the point where we look as good as last season. All players look limp. I dont agree that this should all be blamed on the manager.

Teams can kill us dead...sure, but I again put it to you that theres as much if not more evidence to show this is due to form/confidence/morale as it is down to tactics.

the football is poor indeed....but sometimes hope and scraps and decisions going differently can have a HUGE effect on a teams season. Not saying this is what has killed us, or that this is what will turn around this season but I think its at least a possibility. Anybody watching football for any length of time will have seen situations like that.

 

[Big_nev]

I'm not even sure we have a style of play at the moment. Every team we come up against just packs their half and then proceed to hit us on the counter after another failed attempt at getting through the middle of a [Poor language removed] load of players. It's the consequence of wanting to dominate the ball at all times and valuing possession rather than risk taking.

 

[bicycleheader]

I'm not even sure we have a style of play at the moment. Every team we come up against just packs their half and then proceed to hit us on the counter after another failed attempt at getting through the middle of a [Poor language removed] load of players. It's the consequence of wanting to dominate the ball at all times and valuing possession rather than risk taking.

I think they do take risks. Problem is none of the possession based controlling play, occasional counter attack play or the risky direct balls forward is working for us. I really dont see these tactical magical adjustments the boss should make to bring us back to life. For me the players confidence is shot and they dont execute any attack effectively, regardless of tactical setup or players starting positions.

 

[nsno-chris]

I dont think its as simple as...it all come backs to the manager. Said it elsewhere today, that is just Sun Back Page football thinking IMO.

You surely would agree that all players look off.....there is no noticeable drop him and bring in him situations that have improved us noticeably to the point where we look as good as last season. All players look limp. I dont agree that this should all be blamed on the manager.

Teams can kill us dead...sure, but I again put it to you that theres as much if not more evidence to show this is due to form/confidence/morale as it is down to tactics.

the football is poor indeed....but sometimes hope and scraps and decisions going differently can have a HUGE effect on a teams season. Not saying this is what has killed us, or that this is what will turn around this season but I think its at least a possibility. Anybody watching football for any length of time will have seen situations like that.

Of course its the managers fault, he trains, coaches, picks the team and tactics; thats why hes the manager, its all his responsibility. Whatever happens on the park comes down to him, if it didn't then why does anybody need a manager.

We had this same disagreement 3 months ago, i watched the team and identified an issue, you said it was form. So i backed off for a couple of months to see, and nothing has changed. The same gameplan every game, the same formation. I said the players looked off, totally different from last year and you disagreed and said it was a poor bit of form, now you're agreeing that players look limp and off so my initial assessment was right.

Something has fundamentally changed from last year, behind the scenes, whether a change in training or they've lost that Sergant Moyes work ethic, I don't know. What i do know is that what i said after the Palace games still stands now

 

[Toffeelover]

This is true also...so many balls played behind the player. Barkley being the worst culprit...the pacing on his passes is often way off...but he is young.

However i think these are the small things that will improve if we can get some confidence.

Rubbish, if he can't play a pass now with his skill and experience when we will he be able to, another year or two or three?

 

[Toffeelover]

We seem to have only one game plan.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Rubbish, if he can't play a pass now with his skill and experience when we will he be able to, another year or two or three?

Yep,he's capable of brilliance,but simply playing a simple ten yard pass in front of someone making a run is very,very often beyond him,bizarre