Should we prepare for life after...

[blue61]

Your last paragraph tells us what Everton need more than anything, a leader, a shouter to make others play and most of all a winner, we haven't had a player like this for a long time.

And throw in being an Evertonian and having experience at captaincy for club and country. If only such a player existed

 

[davids]

And throw in being an Evertonian and having experience at captaincy for club and country. If only such a player existed

And that he was 5 years younger

 

[chicoazul]

Not in the case of Barkley IMO.

He is decent but far from irreplaceable, in fact I would say very easily replaced. Rom on the other hand is a 20 goal a season boss slotter, so if he goes we need to find those goals from elsewhere which would be far more tricky a job.

We haven't achieved anything with both of them in the side for the last 3 seasons apart from this season and a Europa League place, so the injection of some fresh faces around them could spur them on I suppose. Got the feeling it will not make any difference with Barkley though, I think Koeman can see this in him too and is happy to let him go. (cue Barkely signing a new 5 year deal imminently)

Mate Barkley has been highly influential this season. His impact on our run of form since Christmas is huge. Literally 3 quiet games later (in which - join the dots - we haven't won a game) and loads have quickly forgot and want to sell him.

He's an incredibly talented local lad and Evertonian, why does this seem to hamper players at Everton? It's ludicrous.

 

[chicoazul]

The majority who are not arsed about Ross not signing on and leaving in the summer realise after 4 full seasons of football at Everton that he's not going to go to the next level. That's not a defence-mode reaction, just saying what I and many others see. I want him to succeed just like any other academy player but in terms of confidence, intelligent play, consistency, it's not happening.
Attacking midfield is going to be a very important position for RK to fill and if he doesn't see Barkley as the main man then he needs to get his own in.

1 - he's not been playing attacking midfield for the last half of this season.

2 - its FIFA chat but he's "moved up a level or two" this season and the improvement is evident in his value to Everton's good run of results.

 

[davek]

I'd say he's spoilt in the way the club allow him to sound off on a regular basis about his looking for a new club.At least Fellaini left his Dad to do his talking (which I'm sure the club had no control over).As for his quotes about players we failed to sign maybe he was referring to Sissoko and Gabbiadini who both seem to be setting the Prem alight.

He's done well.

 

[davek]

From 1996 - 2013 Arsenals net spend was 26.6m for those 17 years mate, so about 1.5m per season on average, they qualified for the Cl every one of those seasons

The correlation between finishing position is by a million miles more to do with Wages being paid over 'net spend' mate

They had a direct line into the best talent coming out of Africa via France. We have a direct line to Barnsley.

 

[Thomasc]

Mate Barkley has been highly influential this season. His impact on our run of form since Christmas is huge. Literally 3 quiet games later (in which - join the dots - we haven't won a game) and loads have quickly forgot and want to sell him.

He's an incredibly talented local lad and Evertonian, why does this seem to hamper players at Everton? It's ludicrous.

I think he just massively divides opinion.

Not disagreeing his form since Christmas has been a lot better, but lets be honest it needed to be as he has been frustratingly inconsistent for the last 3 seasons now.

He is a very decent player, no doubt about that. But, I really am not sure still what his best position is and he is not good enough or consistent enough to form the team around him which I think are both parts of the problem.

Where does he play in a 4-4-2? Where does he play in a 4-3-3? I can only actually make a case for him in the side if we play 4-5-1 and even then him as your playmaker seems to have its flaws too, he isn't a Mata or a David Silva, for further back he is not even as good as Gana or Schneids for those positions, Davies seems to have a much higher work rate too.

 

[bluestevon]

They had a direct line into the best talent coming out of Africa via France. We have a direct line to Barnsley.

Irrelevant Dave, you made a statement categorically asserting that net spend and CL finishing positions are directly related, i showed a very good example of the most consistent team in the CL over 17 years who showed net spend was an irrelevance for them.

If that isn't enough here is the net spend in the league over the past 5 seasons, check who is sitting in 19th place in this table Dave

Thats 2 huge examples of net spend irrelevance.

Also check who is second in that table mate - i believe they have failed to qualify for 3 out the last 4 seasons for the CL

# Net Spend last 5 Years Purchased Gross Sold Nett Per Season

1 Manchester City £565,650,000 £163,100,000 £402,550,000 £80,510,000
2 Manchester United £528,800,000 £176,650,000 £352,150,000 £70,430,000
4 Arsenal £298,340,000 £92,450,000 £205,890,000 £41,178,000
3 Chelsea £507,459,000 £320,650,000 £186,809,000 £37,361,800
5 Liverpool £365,600,000 £244,080,000 £121,520,000 £24,304,000
6 West Ham £169,500,000 £51,000,000 £118,500,000 £23,700,000
7 Sunderland £131,980,000 £51,050,000 £80,930,000 £16,186,000
8 Crystal Palace £149,535,000 £68,900,000 £80,635,000 £16,127,000
9 Leicester £129,700,000 £55,050,000 £74,650,000 £14,930,000
14 Stoke City £98,300,000 £24,000,000 £74,300,000 £14,860,000
10 Everton £191,300,000 £123,816,000 £67,484,000 £13,496,800
11 West Bromwich Albion £99,350,000 £42,209,000 £57,141,000 £11,428,200
15 AFC Bournemouth £76,850,000 £24,780,000 £52,070,000 £10,414,000
12 Watford £90,700,000 £48,800,000 £41,900,000 £8,380,000
15 Middlesbrough £59,225,000 £18,675,000 £40,550,000 £8,110,000
16 Southampton £235,100,000 £195,850,000 £39,250,000 £7,850,000
17 Burnley £53,200,000 £23,450,000 £29,750,000 £5,950,000
18 Hull City £92,625,000 £65,900,000 £26,725,000 £5,345,000
19 Tottenham £315,450,000 £314,450,000 £1,000,000 £200,000
20 Swansea £122,375,000 £124,560,000 -£2,185,000 -£437,000

 

[davek]

Irrelevant Dave, you made a statement categorically asserting that net spend and CL finishing positions are directly related, i showed a very good example of the most consistent team in the CL over 17 years who showed net spend was an irrelevance for them.

If that isn't enough here is the net spend in the league over the past 5 seasons, check who is sitting in 19th place in this table Dave

Thats 2 huge examples of net spend irrelevance.

Also check who is second in that table mate - i believe they have failed to qualify for 3 out the last 4 seasons for the CL

# Net Spend last 5 Years Purchased Gross Sold Nett Per Season

1 Manchester City £565,650,000 £163,100,000 £402,550,000 £80,510,000
2 Manchester United £528,800,000 £176,650,000 £352,150,000 £70,430,000
4 Arsenal £298,340,000 £92,450,000 £205,890,000 £41,178,000
3 Chelsea £507,459,000 £320,650,000 £186,809,000 £37,361,800
5 Liverpool £365,600,000 £244,080,000 £121,520,000 £24,304,000
6 West Ham £169,500,000 £51,000,000 £118,500,000 £23,700,000
7 Sunderland £131,980,000 £51,050,000 £80,930,000 £16,186,000
8 Crystal Palace £149,535,000 £68,900,000 £80,635,000 £16,127,000
9 Leicester £129,700,000 £55,050,000 £74,650,000 £14,930,000
14 Stoke City £98,300,000 £24,000,000 £74,300,000 £14,860,000
10 Everton £191,300,000 £123,816,000 £67,484,000 £13,496,800
11 West Bromwich Albion £99,350,000 £42,209,000 £57,141,000 £11,428,200
15 AFC Bournemouth £76,850,000 £24,780,000 £52,070,000 £10,414,000
12 Watford £90,700,000 £48,800,000 £41,900,000 £8,380,000
15 Middlesbrough £59,225,000 £18,675,000 £40,550,000 £8,110,000
16 Southampton £235,100,000 £195,850,000 £39,250,000 £7,850,000
17 Burnley £53,200,000 £23,450,000 £29,750,000 £5,950,000
18 Hull City £92,625,000 £65,900,000 £26,725,000 £5,345,000
19 Tottenham £315,450,000 £314,450,000 £1,000,000 £200,000
20 Swansea £122,375,000 £124,560,000 -£2,185,000 -£437,000

Thanks mate, you just underlined my point perfectly and then attempted to 'prove' it was wrong with an outlier like Spurs.

Just look at your own data and try and tell anyone that net spend isn't fundamental to CL places?

It also obliterates your point on Arsenal.

Two shots to the foot for the price of one.

 

[bluestevon]

Thanks mate, you just underlined my point perfectly and then attempted to 'prove' it was wrong with an outlier like Spurs.

Just look at your own data and try and tell anyone that net spend isn't fundamental to CL places?

It also obliterates your point on Arsenal.

Two shots to the foot for the price of one.

Over 17 years Arsenal where bottom of the 'net spend' league they finished CL places every season of those years.

Spurs are currently 19th over the last 5 years and have finished 5,6,5,3,2 - not a one off season but clear progresion - depsite a paltry net spend.

Sunderland have been the 7th biggest net spenders over the past 5 seasons - have they been competing for the CL spots Dave - or for Europe?

The season they went down - Newcastle had a massive net spend - they got relegated.

As for obliterating my point on Arsenal - I showed you the data which showed their net spend from 1996-2013 - 20th in the league and 1m per season on average. NOW since then they have had a absolutely massive increase in net spend - and they have seen no marked improvement on finishing positions etc, in fact the opposite is now happening and despite this huge net spend over 5 years (and a very large spend this season) they are set to drop out of the top 4 for the very first time in 20+ years.

The correlation between league finishing position is far more tied to wages paid by the clubs, not to do with net spend.

 

[davids]

He's done well.

6 in his first 4 games, then...Against the rs Matip had him in his pocket so might have to file this one under,matter of opinion.

 

[davek]

Over 17 years Arsenal where bottom of the 'net spend' league they finished CL places every season of those years.

Spurs are currently 19th over the last 5 years and have finished 5,6,5,3,2 - not a one off season but clear progresion - depsite a paltry net spend.

Sunderland have been the 7th biggest net spenders over the past 5 seasons - have they been competing for the CL spots Dave - or for Europe?

The season they went down - Newcastle had a massive net spend - they got relegated.

As for obliterating my point on Arsenal - I showed you the data which showed their net spend from 1996-2013 - 20th in the league and 1m per season on average. NOW since then they have had a absolutely massive increase in net spend - and they have seen no marked improvement on finishing positions etc, in fact the opposite is now happening and despite this huge net spend over 5 years (and a very large spend this season) they are set to drop out of the top 4 for the very first time in 20+ years.

The correlation between league finishing position is far more tied to wages paid by the clubs, not to do with net spend.

All of that boils down to nothing: outliers like Sunderland and Spurs mean nothing. The trend is there in the figures you posted: spend big, you get the return in terms of CL spots.

It's as plain as the nose on your face.

 

[davek]

6 in his first 4 games, then...Against the rs Matip had him in his pocket so might have to file this one under,matter of opinion.

I'd rather we had him than C-L.

 

[davids]

I'd rather we had him than C-L.

DCL? Bit of a discrepancy in transfer fees and first team experience.And DCL can head a ball.

 

[bluestevon]

All of that boils down to nothing: outliers like Sunderland and Spurs mean nothing. The trend is there in the figures you posted: spend big, you get the return in terms of CL spots.

It's as plain as the nose on your face.

How about the outlier of Liverpool cracking the top 4 in the season they have had a negative net spend then Dave, something they failed to do in seasons they had huge positive net spends?

How about the outlier of West Ham, or Palace, both teams struggling in the bottom half and flirting with relegation despite being considerably high up on net spend over the last 5 seasons?

Arsenal for 17 seasons- Outlier
Arsenal this season - Outlier
Liverpool this season - Outlier
Spurs last 5 years - Outlier
West Ham last 5 years - Outlier
Newcastle in relegation year - Outlier
Palace last 5 years - outlier

that's an awful lot of outliers really mate

Your also somewhat weirdly obsessed with net spend - whilst ignoring a simple fact - net spend also reflects how good the club is at moving on players they dont want - some teams - for example city - don't bother and just get rid for nothing or let contracts run out, others such as spurs get as much as they can do for every single playing asset

Overall spending - more important than net spend
Clubs wages - more important than net spend