Ross Barkley

[ToffeeTim]

He doesn't want it. He is content to lose.

 

[MartyMcFly]

I think it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for Martinez. Throughout his tenure the fan base has thought Ross would kick on to become a world class player. To get there was going to require playing time and plenty of forgiveness when things went wrong. It's difficult to bring in a high priced option at the same position to only be competition. We don't have that luxury. And if the replacement wins out then you'd hear a lot about destroying Ross' psyche and all that.

The Martinez gamble was that all these young kids could turn into not only competent players but the kinds that could carry on to a top four position. The only one it really worked with was Lukaku, who was, not coincidentally, the most expensive player. Stones may still get there, but he's been a weak link at Everton and now at Man City, and it's beside the point for us now anyway. Besic isn't going to get there. Deulofeu isn't going to get there. I won't speak as declaratively here but it's very difficult to see Barkley getting there.

That's the reason Payet would have been perfect. He's as creative as a No 10 but plays on the wing. He could have taken the burden off Ross while Ross was developing.

 

[Number_25]

First real post on here for a while, but I can't help but feel a level of sympathy for the lad.

It's evident that he's not capable to play in that number 10 role, and the chances of him adapting to a deeper role at this point in is career is unlikely. No doubting his technical ability on the ball, he breezes past players as if they're not even there - but he lacks the footballing intellect to produce anything decent from his work.

 

[Socrates]

Here's a suggestion.

Swap him out with Liam Walsh.

Let Barkley learn how to dominate games again in the under 23s for a while.
He's still young enough to qualify and if anyone can get him back on track it's David Unsworth.

Coversely, let's see if Liam Walsh can showcase his skills at Premier League level.

It might just bring out the best in both of them and generate competition in the squad plus it will show everyone that every place is up for grabs.

 

[COYBL25]

First real post on here for a while, but I can't help but feel a level of sympathy for the lad.

It's evident that he's not capable to play in that number 10 role, and the chances of him adapting to a deeper role at this point in is career is unlikely. No doubting his technical ability on the ball, he breezes past players as if they're not even there - but he lacks the footballing intellect to produce anything decent from his work.

Just not consistently good enough then ?

 

[Ashtonian]

I think it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for Martinez. Throughout his tenure the fan base has thought Ross would kick on to become a world class player. To get there was going to require playing time and plenty of forgiveness when things went wrong. It's difficult to bring in a high priced option at the same position to only be competition. We don't have that luxury. And if the replacement wins out then you'd hear a lot about destroying Ross' psyche and all that.

The Martinez gamble was that all these young kids could turn into not only competent players but the kinds that could carry on to a top four position. The only one it really worked with was Lukaku, who was, not coincidentally, the most expensive player. Stones may still get there, but he's been a weak link at Everton and now at Man City, and it's beside the point for us now anyway. Besic isn't going to get there. Deulofeu isn't going to get there. I won't speak as declaratively here but it's very difficult to see Barkley getting there.

The issue I hold over it mate is not martinez allowing Ross to play his game bit the clear lack of coaching then offered to him. Almost like he assumed a 20 year old knew how to be a top player by himself and didn't need to put special coaching on him. Did liverpool do thst with Gerrard? Did Chelsea do it with lampard? Do you think Zidane got to being best in the world by himself?

That's the point I mean, he never got that at the vital time in his career, and is now at the point in his career where he needs to be showing on the pitch to establish himself and he just isn't doing it, often ignoring instructions whilst he does it. And amazingly the club have not brought a single player in to replace him with, so it's Ross or no one, and it just keeps sending him a message that no matter how badly he is playing he still has a guaranteed spot in that team.

 

[Number_25]

Just not consistently good enough then ?

The real question is that of his mental ability to withstand questions surrounding him, whenever there's a slight amount of pressure on the lad he seems to capitulate.

 

[MartyMcFly]

The issue I hold over it mate is not martinez allowing Ross to play his game bit the clear lack of coaching then offered to him. Almost like he assumed a 20 year old knew how to be a top player by himself and didn't need to put special coaching on him. Did liverpool do thst with Gerrard? Did Chelsea do it with lampard? Do you think Zidane got to being best in the world by himself?

That's the point I mean, he never got that at the vital time in his career, and is now at the point in his career where he needs to be showing on the pitch to establish himself and he just isn't doing it, often ignoring instructions whilst he does it. And amazingly the club have not brought a single player in to replace him with, so it's Ross or no one, and it just keeps sending him a message that no matter how badly he is playing he still has a guaranteed spot in that team.

I don't think so. He just isn't good enough to play as a No 10. He's not creative enough.

Moyes saw him as someone to play further back but didn't trust him defensively. Nothing has changed in 5 years.

 

[Ashtonian]

I don't think so. He just isn't good enough to play as a No 10. He's not creative enough.

Moyes saw him as someone to play further back but didn't trust him defensively. Nothing has changed in 5 years.

Only thing stopping him is him!

He is so selfish as a player sometimes it's unreal. So many times he can look for the striker and instead spends too long trying to find space for a shot. Except he scores nowhere near enough a season to justify it.

And the thing is, when he first broke though he didn't have thst issue. He was great in his movement and passing and linking up with the striker. Over the past 4 years he has lost that, almost like he believes himself to be better than what he is. The minute he stops over thinking things and plays for the team and not himself is the moment the diamond will start coming through

 

[ToffeeTim]

It's players like Ross who don't really deserve to be this good at football. Dead lucky

 

[kenada_blue]

I don't think so. He just isn't good enough to play as a No 10. He's not creative enough.

Moyes saw him as someone to play further back but didn't trust him defensively. Nothing has changed in 5 years.

I still feel he has it to be that player. You're talking about his form nose diving from Dec last season when the team took a turn for the worst. He still hit double figures for goals and almost for assists. That's not pure fluke.

I've always said, you have to play him in the role through thick and thin and have players supporting him.

The time he struggles with form was the 2nd season Martinez was in charge...and played him wide right for the most part.

 

[Donald Twain]

I thought he showed a little more composure today , and his ass didn't look as big !

 

[IlliniToffee]

It's players like Ross who don't really deserve to be this good at football. Dead lucky

Jesus, rein it in. He's not an awful human being like so many top players. He's just missing a quality or two to kick on to the top level.

 

[MartyMcFly]

I still feel he has it to be that player. You're talking about his form nose diving from Dec last season when the team took a turn for the worst. He still hit double figures for goals and almost for assists. That's not pure fluke.

I've always said, you have to play him in the role through thick and thin and have players supporting him.

The time he struggles with form was the 2nd season Martinez was in charge...and played him wide right for the most part.

He can play there but he needs an Erikson, Payet, Silva, Mata type player on the wing. He can't play there with two out and out wingers.

Especially with the kind of forward that Rom is. Maybe if he has an Aguero it wouldn't be so bad. I hate to say it but he doesn't have that 6th sense to sniff when there might be a chance to get a goal. The amount of times he just waiting outside the box when he should have been trying to get on to a cross.

He should watch videos of Delle Ali's movement.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Jesus, rein it in. He's not an awful human being like so many top players. He's just missing a quality or two to kick on to the top level.

It's obviously mainly jealousy.

But I cannot abide people blessed with immense natural ability in whatever field they're in, who have no hunger, desire or willingness to put in the effort to succeed.