Ross Barkley

[davek]

There's an issue there that hasn't been addressed: no one is arguing Koeman isn't doing his job. he has the perfect right to sub or drop who he wants. After last season's antics from this lot, I'd welcome that as long as it's consistent and shows no fear or favour. The issue that's constantly been ignored is that this has been in the public domain, a very open and public dressing down of a player. THAT is a legitimate concern (shamefully a couple here have used that legitimate question - or their frustration at being incapable of addressing it to beg for a ban on asking it).

 

[BlueToff]

There's an issue there that hasn't been addressed: no one is arguing Koeman isn't doing his job. he has the perfect right to sub or drop who he wants. After last seaspn';s antics from this lot, I'd welcome that as long as it's consistent and shows no fear of favour. The issue that's constantly been ignored is that this has been in the public domain, a very open and public dressing down of a player. THAT is a legitimate concern (shamefully a couple here have used that legitimate question - or their frustration at being incapable of addressing it to beg for a ban on asking it).

It wasn't a dressing down though at all Dave.

He was asked a question and he answered it. He said that they'd spoke and that Ross knew he needed to perform better than he did the other night. There's nothing wrong with that

 

[brieverton]

I think a lot of that is fair. My two questions would be;
1) Was Barkley immune from the lads who downed tools. I see him as very much part of the group that dropped off. In all honesty I blame the majority of them equally.
2) Re Mirallas/Lukaku has he not already admonished them publically?

At his first press conference he stated "Lukaku needs to work harder and improve". When he returned to fitness he didn't go straight back into the team.
Mirallas likewise was told "he needs to work hard for 90 minutes" and remember him being dropped pre season. He too has been substituted early in games.

I think the issue for Koeman will probably be how long can he be publically critical of players for before they, their agents and the local press start to turn. I'm not sure you can manage indefinitely by being so open, at least very few other managers adopt this. That being said if he's here for 2-3 years he may well avoid the problem.

As for me I am in favour of his approach, for two reasons one which I accept is not a good one. Primarily because I see that group of players let the club down last season and let down someone who I felt was a decent man who had tried to talk most of them up. While Martinez has rightly taken a lot of flak I won't forget the Anfield capitulation for some time to come. I accept though this is not a particularly helpful instinct and doesn't lead to good management.

The more important reason is that I think they require a stricter approach. In the latter years of Moyes and Martinez Everton became quite a closeted, tight knit group where favouritism developed. It's an extension of the "family club" stuff Kenwright has always pushed. I think lads need to be pushed more, even if just for the short term.

I can understand why you think it's targeting of Barkley but I'm not sure it is. I think this is Koemans approach to management. There are definitely faults to it but right now do you not think we need such an approach. Secondly would making a lad like Barkley immune to it not lead to a world where the favouritism would be re-created?

I am a big Barkley fan but it is up to him now. If he can't cope with some honest criticism in public from his manager I don't think he will emulate Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard which should be his aim.

Excellent post again. I think personally that Koeman just doesn't engage in too much pre-analysis of his public assessments on the players - that is unique and different to the norm in many respects. I think in some ways he has this free rein with Barkley in particular - if the desired improvement does not come / is not maintained in the longer-term then Barkley's next move will be downwards - I don't think Koeman regards him as a talent that has to be protected and cosseted in that regard, or is afraid of him being poached if he gets too upset.

The less direct "criticism" of Lukaku, if you can call it that, was more an acknowledgement of his lack of fitness and perhaps a slight dig at the amount of time he has needed post Euro 16 to regain sharpness. He did also make, fleetingly, on Monday night, a comment along the lines of "if he can keep quiet" but we all know what he meant there, and most of us would agree. I expect that Koeman shares the general belief that, barring qualification for the Champions League, this is Lukaku's final season with us, that won't mean Koeman is liberal with him, but if there are periods where his work-rate and attitude seem to be dragging again, then I think he will feel a certain freedom to let rip a little.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Look, there's no undermining of the manager or opposing him by stating he ballsed up here. He's fallible isn't he? Why on earth are so few willing to accept he may have got this wrong here? Is his standing that fragile?

From the man who spent his time swearing red was blue that Martinez was right about everything. Lol

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

From the man who spent his time swearing red was blue that Martinez was right about everything. Lol

Dave makes a good point that the manager shouldn't be infallible, one I wholeheartedly agree with, I just think he's picked a strange hill to die on in regards to making that point

 

[Goat]

There's an issue there that hasn't been addressed: no one is arguing Koeman isn't doing his job. he has the perfect right to sub or drop who he wants. After last season's antics from this lot, I'd welcome that as long as it's consistent and shows no fear or favour. The issue that's constantly been ignored is that this has been in the public domain, a very open and public dressing down of a player. THAT is a legitimate concern (shamefully a couple here have used that legitimate question - or their frustration at being incapable of addressing it to beg for a ban on asking it).

Cant wait for Ross to turn round in a few weeks and tell everybody the turning point was the gaffer telling him he expected more.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Cant wait for Ross to turn round in a few weeks and tell everybody the turning point was the gaffer telling him he expected more.

I am very interested to see Ross's response to the whole situation

I think he'll take it on board and be better for it

 

[micknick]

If Koeman wanted to avoid Martinez's mistake he'd have binned the barrack room lawyers who downed tools intentionally not a boy who gives his all when he takes to the pitch.

I'm sorry, he's needlessly hung a talented and good lad out to dry here...maybe because he doesn't fancy taking on a serial moaner like Mirallas or a misfiring Lukaku.

I support Koeman, but I tell you what he will store up some ill feeling if he continues a line that throws his players to the dogs like he has today. Up to him. He'll either be a roaring sucess and win stuff and thereby get away with stunts like this, or he'll be bang average or worse and players will have him out.

The secret to good management is man management. Carrot or stick. Koeman has chosen his method to deal with Ross, the carrot didnt exactly work with Martinez did it.

 

[Goat]

I am very interested to see Ross's response to the whole situation

I think he'll take it on board and be better for it

Of course he will, hes a good lad, there wont have been any hard feelings, he will be better for it, just wait till everybodys singing his song tomorrow and hes running over to Ronny giving him a big sloppy kiss.

 

[Goat]

The secret to good management is man management. Carrot or stick. Koeman has chosen his method to deal with Ross, the carrot didnt exactly work with Martinez did it.

I used the carrot and the stick yesterday mick, do you have me on ignore Friend?

 

[Goat]

WHAT HAVE WE GOT?

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

WHAT HAVE WE GOT?

An almond called Boss Rarkley???

 

[Goat]

An almond called Boss Rarkley???

Davek is a trumpet, he wears a trumpet hat and when hes dissing Ronny, we all think what a

 

[DownOnTheUpside]

An almond called Boss Rarkley???

a toffee that comes from Knutsford?

 

[davek]

The secret to good management is man management. Carrot or stick. Koeman has chosen his method to deal with Ross, the carrot didnt exactly work with Martinez did it.

I agree with that. 100%. But it isn;t the issue and that's been hammered home here loads but is conveniently side stepped. The issue is not bollocking Barkley. By all means, do so if you think it gets more from him. The issue is that he's done it and then made it public when it should have stayed behind closed doors. To me that's playing to the gallery and I dont trust that type of stuff.

BTW, can you imagine Koeman going to a CL spot club and doing that? Not a chance. He'd last two minutes.