Ronald Koeman discussion

[Kenshin]

@COYBL25
I do understand the urge to sack him. However we are still only at the start of his second season and are trying to blend a number of new players into the team. Second seasons are notoriously difficult for most managers.
I would afford him more time based on his relative success in equally difficult circumstances at his previous club. It is obviously better for our club if the current manager can put right what is wrong with what is now his team than return to the start with a new manager.
I am willing to remain patient for a while longer yet.

Repeating previous posts but it isn't a case of struggling second season syndrome but koeman has threw everything out the window from last season and the team has lost its identity . It's not a case of poor form, the team has no actual structure or tactics anymore. If we were going to have a pressing game then great, but we signed 4 players for essentially 80 million near enough who don't fit that tactic. They don't fit into a team together and when we shoe horn number 10s into a team we lose any direct play.

The team plays with 7 defensive players on the pitch essentially with 5 defence and 2 holding midfielders yet we leak goals? I have seen only once tbis season us having an attacking tactic and that was basically hoofing it 50 yards from the edge of our box. This isn't second season syndrome, this is poor management from koeman

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

What do the club do if we're in the or around the bottom three at Christmas ?.

How do we attract the quality players we desperately need ?.

The team is in free fall and Koeman appears clueless as to how to fix things.

A new manager may be a case for damage limitation, rather than progression.

Yes, I understand your argument ,at this point it's subjective. I still think he is capable of recovery and it is too early to end his tenure.
We cannot see into the future so we do not know if he can recover or not. It is equally possible that a new manager will struggle with this team and we could end up sacking him and installing another manager , it's not an uncommon sequence of events.
At the end of the day it's a judgement call , and I would prefer to hang fire at the moment.

 

[degsy]

Farhad was at Finch Farm to give him his backing and support.

and he told you this personally did he?

Well he told me that he'd to him, lose this and your gone.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Repeating previous posts but it isn't a case of struggling second season syndrome but koeman has threw everything out the window from last season and the team has lost its identity . It's not a case of poor form, the team has no actual structure or tactics anymore. If we were going to have a pressing game then great, but we signed 4 players for essentially 80 million near enough who don't fit that tactic. They don't fit into a team together and when we shoe horn number 10s into a team we lose any direct play.

The team plays with 7 defensive players on the pitch essentially with 5 defence and 2 holding midfielders yet we leak goals? I have seen only once tbis season us having an attacking tactic and that was basically hoofing it 50 yards from the edge of our box. This isn't second season syndrome, this is poor management from koeman

I can only reply I disagree with your position at present. I think he is in the hazardous process of changing the team to suit his vision, which is the cause of all second season problems. Hence I am prepared to be patient. As ever it's subjective.

 

[Deckard2049]

I can only reply I disagree with your position at present. I think he is in the hazardous process of changing the team to suit his vision, which is the cause of all second season problems. Hence I am prepared to be patient. As ever it's subjective.

At Southampton, how much of the recruitment do you believe was down to Koeman's preferences or the Saints model? I ask this because if he's going to stay, I don't see how things can improve too much until he's allowed to complete his vision, which won't happen till January. We don't have the Pelle target man figure. We don't have someone with the explosive nature of Mane. Those two figures are probably the ones we're missing most from his vision for Everton. And to be honest I'd say his Southampton team probably overall had more quality than ours does now.

Do you honestly think he can improve things before acquiring at the very least a striker in January? Should he be allowed to stumble on till then? Personally I just don't see him fixing things as the problems aren't just tactical. They're personnel based as much as anything. And that's on him. He used what resources were available to him unwisely and I'd be hesitant to back his recruitment ability once more.

Unfortunately however with some of our issues being unresolvable till January I wouldn't even be confident a new manager could turn things around until then. However they're quite a few simple things Koeman could be doing, Sigurddson in the middle and only one of Gana and Schneiderlin spring to mind, that would improve us right now, so let's see tomorrow if the two week international break has given him time to come up with a new plan or time to sink birdies.

 

[bicycleheader]

I still think he should get until Xmas to sort it. But then I , unlike most on here, still believe he can sort it based on his performance at Soton. As I've said it's better for the club if he does, otherwise we go back to the beginning with another manager.
Impatience with managers can become a destabilising problem. It's akin to dislocating your shoulder , the more you do it the more frequently and problematic it becomes. It appears a manager now has just over a year to prove himself. So if there is a new manager my advice to him would be to get a move on cos you ain't got long.

we shouldnt have hired the guy in the first place. i dont know how anybody could have looked at his managerial career and thought this is the man to lead our new project and get us up to a point where we challenge the top 4.

I think he was hired to be a steady hand. Was bigged up as something more but ultimately they knew they were getting in somebody to steady us and he did last season. They probably also knew that crap runs like this and last season would happen at times but over the whole season it would be ok.

Id prefer we didnt hire coaches with such a low ceiling for achievement.

Of course if they did actually hire him thinking he is going to win us something then it worries me thinking who on earth they might get next.

 

[brigadier]

come on pumpkin head you can do it.

 

[Axlswhk]

I really hope there's a performance clause in his contract that limit his sacking compensation

 

[MikeH72]

Just go.

 

[bluestevon]

I still think he should get until Xmas to sort it. But then I , unlike most on here, still believe he can sort it based on his performance at Soton. As I've said it's better for the club if he does, otherwise we go back to the beginning with another manager.
Impatience with managers can become a destabilising problem. It's akin to dislocating your shoulder , the more you do it the more frequently and problematic it becomes. It appears a manager now has just over a year to prove himself. So if there is a new manager my advice to him would be to get a move on cos you ain't got long.

Thing about going back to the start is that 'hopefully' when you do change the manager - what the new one inherits is better than what the previous one did and he gets the best/more out of those players.

He may well turn results around etc, he has done it here before last season and did it both seasons at saints, but for a team that wants to push on and finally win something - then that in itself is damming, 4 consecutive seasons he would have had a terrible run of form before turning that form around, which is enough to effectively kill you in the cups and for doing anything except the 6/7th placed trophy in a season, the phrase 'just good enough to get you beat' springs to mind.

Could argue about the changing managers thing that basically every single club is doing the same thing these days, Arsenal aside, United went through 3 in 4 seasons after Ferguson, Liverpool, spurs, also have been changing before finally settling on the one they seem to think is the real deal for the club (spurs obviously is, the rs 'looks' to be), Chelsea have it as their entire model to change the coach every couple of seasons at most as well.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

At Southampton, how much of the recruitment do you believe was down to Koeman's preferences or the Saints model? I ask this because if he's going to stay, I don't see how things can improve too much until he's allowed to complete his vision, which won't happen till January. We don't have the Pelle target man figure. We don't have someone with the explosive nature of Mane. Those two figures are probably the ones we're missing most from his vision for Everton. And to be honest I'd say his Southampton team probably overall had more quality than ours does now.

Do you honestly think he can improve things before acquiring at the very least a striker in January? Should he be allowed to stumble on till then? Personally I just don't see him fixing things as the problems aren't just tactical. They're personnel based as much as anything. And that's on him. He used what resources were available to him unwisely and I'd be hesitant to back his recruitment ability once more.

Unfortunately however with some of our issues being unresolvable till January I wouldn't even be confident a new manager could turn things around until then. However they're quite a few simple things Koeman could be doing, Sigurddson in the middle and only one of Gana and Schneiderlin spring to mind, that would improve us right now, so let's see tomorrow if the two week international break has given him time to come up with a new plan or time to sink birdies.

Personally, I simply believe it is still too early to cast final judgment on this manager and his team ,relatively this season has only just begun. I understand the anger and disappointment and at the end of the matches I hurl a couple of anti Dutch epithets across the pitch. But changing a manager during the season is in itself fraught with dangers. A new manager can intensify the problems as he sifts through the wreckage of another mans vision.
However the time may yet come when casting aside my sanguine exterior and donning my peasants garb, I shall ignite my torch and march upon the citadel of despair to burn the tyrant out. There we shall celebrate glumly amongst the ashes whilst we await the next monster to arise from the ruins. Then we shall begin the dance again.

 

[Eggs]

..much will depend on whether any more defeats are expected or unexpected.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

we shouldnt have hired the guy in the first place. i dont know how anybody could have looked at his managerial career and thought this is the man to lead our new project and get us up to a point where we challenge the top 4.

I think he was hired to be a steady hand. Was bigged up as something more but ultimately they knew they were getting in somebody to steady us and he did last season. They probably also knew that crap runs like this and last season would happen at times but over the whole season it would be ok.

Id prefer we didnt hire coaches with such a low ceiling for achievement.

Of course if they did actually hire him thinking he is going to win us something then it worries me thinking who on earth they might get next.

To be fair he had done well under trying circumstances at Southampton and consequently had premier league experience. He wasn't top of my list , Favre was my pick, followed by the Spaniard now at PSG I think,(sorry his name evades me at present).
But we have no say in these decisions and can only deal with what we are given, which is a metaphor for life in general really.

 

[ChesterBlue]

I genuinely don't think the issue is necessarily the players we've bought being the issue. I think it's the players we haven't bought, in particular a striker and a dangerous winger - that and our terrible tactics, team selection and lack of pace (something we actually have plenty of in our squad with Vlasic, Lookman, Mirallas, DCL, and Lennon)
The manager has to be brought to task over this, as the majority of these issues are of his, and Steve Walsh's making.

 

[Stutheblue]

If Holland approached him/us and it was agreed he could go we'd have no compensation to pay him surely? Knowing our luck (and his) we'd sack him, pay £10m out and he gets the national team job!
Seriously though, a win tomorrow and we can get things going. Nothing less is needed now.