Rebuilding

[davek]

You've taken your team up 51 places in 26 months with two back to back promotions. You've brought through some top youth team players and are on a run of 2 losses in 12 games...with the clubs highest win % in post war history...

Your reward? Sacked for a manager who failed at Espanyol...Mauricio Pochettino.

Southampton sacked Nigel Adkins as they had a long term vision for the club. They have a "philosophy", strategy and plans not only for the club to grow but the style of play they want to project and the recruitment and development of players to fit into this system...

Les Reed, the Director of football at Southampton has been very vocal in articles about how they go into meticulous detail when analysing and researching players who not only need to fit the mould of playing style and type but also mentality...they are chosen by the Director of football and the Head scout with some input from the manager.

Pochettino hadnt done well at Espanyol and yet was seen as a step forward from Adkins as he fitted the mould of manager they were seeking to manage the first team squad. He openly admitted that he had limited input on signings and was a first team coach.

He was a huge success and then as he joined Spurs, the media and fans dreaded the next replacement. However Koeman was brought in as he, once again fit the mould for the type of first team coach needed to suit their system. Again, like Pochettino he stated that he had limited input into signings (though one or two names were put forward by him) and focused only on the first team squad.

Koeman joined us and Claude Puel was appointed as once again he fit their system and we see now that again the "Southampton Way" (as they call it) works with alot of responsibility resting on Les Reed their Director of football....

Reed reminds me alot of Monchi at Sevilla who is credited more than their managers at improving their club.

For us, we have Steve Walsh who has a strong pedigree in pinpointing players to fit into clubs requirements. Perhaps we shouldnt be scoffing at the Zola and Drogba scouting "achievements" and looking at it from the point of view that hes highlighted players like them and the Kante, Mahrez, Vardy's (and other unheralded players) to fit into his clubs system...clearly a superior approach than signing a "Benteke" and not suiting your system!

I think alot rests on the shoulders of Walsh to understand the "Everton Way" dating back to "The school of science" and bringing in players to fit this system and also helping to ensure Unsworth can develop players in this mould.

As for Koeman and his current turgid brand of "football" I think that with Feyenoord and Southampton he fit in well with their system, strategy and vision and so the players he had at his disposal and those that were brought in were his "type" and the clubs type. Hes already commented that he doesnt have much input into signing players (he seemed to favour Bolasie but Gana was more Walsh's pick) so alot is out of his hands.

To me, it appears that our players dont suit his desired style of play and as such he is choosing to play negatively until Walsh brings in players who he prefers to work with and utilise. Perhaps as seen at Valencia, Benfica and AZ he needs a particular squad type to work with.

The hope is that Walsh can succeed and have as much relative success as Monchi and Reed. He has our history as well as hopefully a new stadium on the way, not to mention the Koeman "big name" to attract players.

With Koeman being such a "short term" manager I do hope that the players brought in not only suit Koeman but also a long term strategy from the club in the same mould as Southampton and Sevilla.

A lot depends on whether Moshiri has full faith in Walsh and whether he is up to the task. Also whether Koeman is seen as a stopgap before we appoint someone more in line with a longer term strategy...I think this could be the first club hes joined which is going through a transitional period where the players dont seem to suit him.

Hopefully we get it right!

I dont buy or trust this nonsense of "I dont have much input into signing players". It's an avoidance of responsibility. If any player is signed during a particular manager's time here they were either fully or mostly responsible for it. And if they claim anything less than that they're telling a mighty big fib.

 

[Goat]

I dont buy or trust this nonsense of "I dont have much input into signing players". It's an avoidance of responsibility. If any player is signed during a particular manager's time here they were either fully or mostly responsible for it. And if they claim anything less than that they're telling a mighty big fib.

Koeman will have the final say on every and all transfers.

 

[Zatara]

What you and David fail to grasp is that Koemans style is everything we ask for as fans.

High pressing, high energy direct football and no, direct doesnt mean pumping it to the big man, it means going from a to b as fast as we can.

We are currently in a transitional period, Koeman has got to train a group of players used to playing zombie tiki taka to play the style he wants, some of our players wont ever get it and they will be moved on and replaced by players that can play the system, but its going to take slightly longer than 2 freaking months.

I posted that Walsh is responsible for player recruitment and Koeman is responsible for the first team.

Ergo, alot depends on whether Walsh and Koeman have the same vision and strategy on the playing side as this will reflect who will be targeted.

The thing is, what does Walsh envisage for the future? As with Abramovich at Chelsea, has Moshiri discussed how he wants us to play -- this will also affect marketing and branding.

Koeman was brought in prior to Walsh (who some say was 2nd/3rd choice) does this mean that Koeman has more authority than Walsh or will Walsh have the same influence as Monchi, Reed and that chap at Chelsea?

Will the signings be influenced by Koeman wanting to perhaps make a short term impact or will they be more of a longer term strategy...or a mixture?

Has Moshiri appointed Koeman due to his experience of working in england with a DOF and being an iconic former player or has he been brought in as Moshiri thinks he can build a revolutionary style encapsulating the Guardiola level of innovation?

What is Walsh's remit and how does this synergise with Koemans style of perceived progression?

 

[Gladystweet]

When koeman took over at Southampton, I remember the photo of an empty training ground titled 'pre season training' or something.
Due to the squad being plundered, he had no choice but to quickly replenish it. You have to give him credit for getting them to the level he did in such a short time.
Different situation here. He's got more time to assess, and if necessary, clear out the dead wood. But we have to give him a chance, and time. If he doesn't do what he's paid to do, he'll be gone, but let's give him a chance, he's been here 5 minutes.

 

[davek]

What you and David fail to grasp is that Koemans style is everything we ask for as fans.

High pressing, high energy direct football and no, direct doesnt mean pumping it to the big man, it means going from a to b as fast as we can.

We are currently in a transitional period, Koeman has got to train a group of players used to playing zombie tiki taka to play the style he wants, some of our players wont ever get it and they will be moved on and replaced by players that can play the system, but its going to take slightly longer than 2 freaking months.

A caricature of the two styles on off from each manager.

 

[Goat]

I posted that Walsh is responsible for player recruitment and Koeman is responsible for the first team.

Ergo, alot depends on whether Walsh and Koeman have the same vision and strategy on the playing side as this will reflect who will be targeted.

The thing is, what does Walsh envisage for the future? As with Abramovich at Chelsea, has Moshiri discussed how he wants us to play -- this will also affect marketing and branding.

Koeman was brought in prior to Walsh (who some say was 2nd/3rd choice) does this mean that Koeman has more authority than Walsh or will Walsh have the same influence as Monchi, Reed and that chap at Chelsea?

Will the signings be influenced by Koeman wanting to perhaps make a short term impact or will they be more of a longer term strategy...or a mixture?

Has Moshiri appointed Koeman due to his experience of working in england with a DOF and being an iconic former player or has he been brought in as Moshiri thinks he can build a revolutionary style encapsulating the Guardiola level of innovation?

What is Walsh's remit and how does this synergise with Koemans style of perceived progression?

Koeman will have the final say on every and all transfers.

Koeman was hired due to his ability to get teams challenging at the top of their league, his vast experience as a winner.

Walsh is a scout.

 

[Zatara]

Given the circumstances over the summer the new manager was always going to be the priority. Ideally I agree you would want a DoF in first and I thought at one stage they might leave it be for a few months, but they must have been convinced by Walsh to appoint him. At least he came knowing he would work with Koeman, so I think we'll be fine.

Walsh did a marvellous job at Leicester, if we can make similarly canny signings it will have a huge impact for the good.

I think the key is the specifics of the role and how it overlaps with what koeman wants. its also important to note that this is walsh's first DOF position and his salary increased so much he could hardly say no even if he may not fully be onboard with short term strategy as he may take more of a longer term perspective

 

[Goat]

A caricature of the two styles on off from each manager.

I sadly have no idea of the point you are trying to make.

 

[Papa Shango]

Koeman will have the final say on every and all transfers.

As he should. Would be madness if he didnt.

 

[Zatara]

I dont buy or trust this nonsense of "I dont have much input into signing players". It's an avoidance of responsibility. If any player is signed during a particular manager's time here they were either fully or mostly responsible for it. And if they claim anything less than that they're telling a mighty big fib.

Im not sure, in Southamptons case Les Reed has highlighted players who the manager has mentioned to him as being signed as they were already being monitored and the managers request provided the final tick needed....hes also named some who the manager was informed about and had little input with.

Also you see it at Real Madrid and so e other clubs too

 

[Goat]

As he should. Would be madness if he didnt.

You only to look at over the park and their quite laughable transfer committee to see how it shouldnt be done.

 

[squonk]

rebuilding fortress Goodison is a mighty fine first step.

 

[Zatara]

When koeman took over at Southampton, I remember the photo of an empty training ground titled 'pre season training' or something.
Due to the squad being plundered, he had no choice but to quickly replenish it. You have to give him credit for getting them to the level he did in such a short time.
Different situation here. He's got more time to assess, and if necessary, clear out the dead wood. But we have to give him a chance, and time. If he doesn't do what he's paid to do, he'll be gone, but let's give him a chance, he's been here 5 minutes.

Les Reed sold the players and Koenan acted as first team coach. He then recommended some signings and Reed said he had minimal input in others.

Southampton have a system where they appoint managers and sign/develop players to a certain profile....if theres a manager who has success and trophies he may not fit their system as well as someone like pochettino who did poorly at espanyol for example.

 

[davek]

I posted that Walsh is responsible for player recruitment and Koeman is responsible for the first team.

Ergo, alot depends on whether Walsh and Koeman have the same vision and strategy on the playing side as this will reflect who will be targeted.

The thing is, what does Walsh envisage for the future? As with Abramovich at Chelsea, has Moshiri discussed how he wants us to play -- this will also affect marketing and branding.

Koeman was brought in prior to Walsh (who some say was 2nd/3rd choice) does this mean that Koeman has more authority than Walsh or will Walsh have the same influence as Monchi, Reed and that chap at Chelsea?

Will the signings be influenced by Koeman wanting to perhaps make a short term impact or will they be more of a longer term strategy...or a mixture?

Has Moshiri appointed Koeman due to his experience of working in england with a DOF and being an iconic former player or has he been brought in as Moshiri thinks he can build a revolutionary style encapsulating the Guardiola level of innovation?

What is Walsh's remit and how does this synergise with Koemans style of perceived progression?

I agree, it was arse over elbow the two appointments. More than that though I think there's a hangover from the old regime of Kenwright. If Moshiri wanted a true director of football or general manager then he should dismiss Elstone and hand Walsh his powers also if Elstone is the man holding the purse strings.

I'm sure Koeman wouldn't be bothered about one person doing the donkey work of the organisation that he'd have to do such as getting players over the line for their signature, co-ordinanting the board with the coach's views etc. (but he'd fight shy of any technical director role being created which demands an obedience to a particular style/philosophy/method).

 

[Zatara]

Koeman was hired due to his ability to get teams challenging at the top of their league, his vast experience as a winner.

Walsh is a scout.

im not sure thats true at all.

Koeman has worked with DOFs all his career so that ticks a box as he has shown he is suitable for working under Walsh (in theory).

He has vast experience as a winner as a player but has not the reputation of a serial trophy winner in a major league as a manager.

He does however have success in managing a first team under a DOF at southampton which has overperformed having been thoroughly gutted.

I wonder if Moshiri sees Walsh as installing the long term vision and changing most of the team through bringing in low cost additions as he did at Leicester and as weve seen with the Gana signing with Koeman doing what he did at southampton and overperforming.

Will these players be more in line with a koeman short term stay or the beginning of a new style/strategy envisioned by Walsh/Moshiri?