Rebuilding

[Zatara]

You've taken your team up 51 places in 26 months with two back to back promotions. You've brought through some top youth team players and are on a run of 2 losses in 12 games...with the clubs highest win % in post war history...

Your reward? Sacked for a manager who failed at Espanyol...Mauricio Pochettino.

Southampton sacked Nigel Adkins as they had a long term vision for the club. They have a "philosophy", strategy and plans not only for the club to grow but the style of play they want to project and the recruitment and development of players to fit into this system...

Les Reed, the Director of football at Southampton has been very vocal in articles about how they go into meticulous detail when analysing and researching players who not only need to fit the mould of playing style and type but also mentality...they are chosen by the Director of football and the Head scout with some input from the manager.

Pochettino hadnt done well at Espanyol and yet was seen as a step forward from Adkins as he fitted the mould of manager they were seeking to manage the first team squad. He openly admitted that he had limited input on signings and was a first team coach.

He was a huge success and then as he joined Spurs, the media and fans dreaded the next replacement. However Koeman was brought in as he, once again fit the mould for the type of first team coach needed to suit their system. Again, like Pochettino he stated that he had limited input into signings (though one or two names were put forward by him) and focused only on the first team squad.

Koeman joined us and Claude Puel was appointed as once again he fit their system and we see now that again the "Southampton Way" (as they call it) works with alot of responsibility resting on Les Reed their Director of football....

Reed reminds me alot of Monchi at Sevilla who is credited more than their managers at improving their club.

For us, we have Steve Walsh who has a strong pedigree in pinpointing players to fit into clubs requirements. Perhaps we shouldnt be scoffing at the Zola and Drogba scouting "achievements" and looking at it from the point of view that hes highlighted players like them and the Kante, Mahrez, Vardy's (and other unheralded players) to fit into his clubs system...clearly a superior approach than signing a "Benteke" and not suiting your system!

I think alot rests on the shoulders of Walsh to understand the "Everton Way" dating back to "The school of science" and bringing in players to fit this system and also helping to ensure Unsworth can develop players in this mould.

As for Koeman and his current turgid brand of "football" I think that with Feyenoord and Southampton he fit in well with their system, strategy and vision and so the players he had at his disposal and those that were brought in were his "type" and the clubs type. Hes already commented that he doesnt have much input into signing players (he seemed to favour Bolasie but Gana was more Walsh's pick) so alot is out of his hands.

To me, it appears that our players dont suit his desired style of play and as such he is choosing to play negatively until Walsh brings in players who he prefers to work with and utilise. Perhaps as seen at Valencia, Benfica and AZ he needs a particular squad type to work with.

The hope is that Walsh can succeed and have as much relative success as Monchi and Reed. He has our history as well as hopefully a new stadium on the way, not to mention the Koeman "big name" to attract players.

With Koeman being such a "short term" manager I do hope that the players brought in not only suit Koeman but also a long term strategy from the club in the same mould as Southampton and Sevilla.

A lot depends on whether Moshiri has full faith in Walsh and whether he is up to the task. Also whether Koeman is seen as a stopgap before we appoint someone more in line with a longer term strategy...I think this could be the first club hes joined which is going through a transitional period where the players dont seem to suit him.

Hopefully we get it right!

 

[Goat]

Why not just rename the thread to "I hate Koeman".

 

[Zatara]

Why not just rename the thread to "I hate Koeman".

I think i actually absolved him a fair bit and put the pressure on Walsh.

Which could underline why we werent so successful in summer as Walsh had just joined.

 

[Ashtonian]

To be fair, southampton tend to sign players from celtic and sell to liverpool.

Les Reed hardly signing the next messi when he does it

 

[Brennan]

 

[ilikecheese]

Why not just rename the thread to "I hate Koeman".

How to destroy a long winded rant in 10 words or less.

 

[Zatara]

To be fair, southampton tend to sign players from celtic and sell to liverpool.

Les Reed hardly signing the next messi when he does it

Well, Wanyama also went to Spurs

But, the point is more about the long term vision of the club and the power given to their Director of Football who has a strategy in place which generates a system for signing players and appointing managers.

Players and managers look very good when going into their system due to the research done by the club into getting the right people in.

 

[toffee matt]

Let me guess

Ditch everyone over the age of 21 and bring in the under 12's is what you want?

 

[brieverton]

You've taken your team up 51 places in 26 months with two back to back promotions. You've brought through some top youth team players and are on a run of 2 losses in 12 games...with the clubs highest win % in post war history...

Your reward? Sacked for a manager who failed at Espanyol...Mauricio Pochettino.

Southampton sacked Nigel Adkins as they had a long term vision for the club. They have a "philosophy", strategy and plans not only for the club to grow but the style of play they want to project and the recruitment and development of players to fit into this system...

Les Reed, the Director of football at Southampton has been very vocal in articles about how they go into meticulous detail when analysing and researching players who not only need to fit the mould of playing style and type but also mentality...they are chosen by the Director of football and the Head scout with some input from the manager.

Pochettino hadnt done well at Espanyol and yet was seen as a step forward from Adkins as he fitted the mould of manager they were seeking to manage the first team squad. He openly admitted that he had limited input on signings and was a first team coach.

He was a huge success and then as he joined Spurs, the media and fans dreaded the next replacement. However Koeman was brought in as he, once again fit the mould for the type of first team coach needed to suit their system. Again, like Pochettino he stated that he had limited input into signings (though one or two names were put forward by him) and focused only on the first team squad.

Koeman joined us and Claude Puel was appointed as once again he fit their system and we see now that again the "Southampton Way" (as they call it) works with alot of responsibility resting on Les Reed their Director of football....

Reed reminds me alot of Monchi at Sevilla who is credited more than their managers at improving their club.

For us, we have Steve Walsh who has a strong pedigree in pinpointing players to fit into clubs requirements. Perhaps we shouldnt be scoffing at the Zola and Drogba scouting "achievements" and looking at it from the point of view that hes highlighted players like them and the Kante, Mahrez, Vardy's (and other unheralded players) to fit into his clubs system...clearly a superior approach than signing a "Benteke" and not suiting your system!

I think alot rests on the shoulders of Walsh to understand the "Everton Way" dating back to "The school of science" and bringing in players to fit this system and also helping to ensure Unsworth can develop players in this mould.

As for Koeman and his current turgid brand of "football" I think that with Feyenoord and Southampton he fit in well with their system, strategy and vision and so the players he had at his disposal and those that were brought in were his "type" and the clubs type. Hes already commented that he doesnt have much input into signing players (he seemed to favour Bolasie but Gana was more Walsh's pick) so alot is out of his hands.

To me, it appears that our players dont suit his desired style of play and as such he is choosing to play negatively until Walsh brings in players who he prefers to work with and utilise. Perhaps as seen at Valencia, Benfica and AZ he needs a particular squad type to work with.

The hope is that Walsh can succeed and have as much relative success as Monchi and Reed. He has our history as well as hopefully a new stadium on the way, not to mention the Koeman "big name" to attract players.

With Koeman being such a "short term" manager I do hope that the players brought in not only suit Koeman but also a long term strategy from the club in the same mould as Southampton and Sevilla.

A lot depends on whether Moshiri has full faith in Walsh and whether he is up to the task. Also whether Koeman is seen as a stopgap before we appoint someone more in line with a longer term strategy...I think this could be the first club hes joined which is going through a transitional period where the players dont seem to suit him.

Hopefully we get it right!

Interesting piece. I think the appointment of a DoF is one of the best things we have done in years, credit to Moshiri there. Walsh undoubtedly has credentials as a scout, the DoF role should in theory be much more encompassing, so this is a test for him and quite clearly a settling-in period is needed, hopefully he is adapting and learning by the day. I wholeheartedly support the "continental" model, leaving managers/coaches free to spend the bulk of their time on game preparation, tactics, training, and team selection.

The almost universal view of Koeman is that his spell here will be relatively short-lived. I think it's also quite clear from his comments that he is more "hands-off" on transfers though you would still expect him to be central to the selection of at least some transfer targets. Over time, I do think its more than possible than a given Everton XI on the day will reflect a good deal more of Walsh's influence than Koeman's, and if Walsh is a stayer relative to Koeman, that is no bad thing. In effect, that emphasises how important Walsh now is at Everton, more so than Koeman in my view, given how central he will be to everything football-related.

Ultimately, Walsh may be even more critical in choosing a successor to Koeman (or, at least, making a recommendation) than he may be in identifying signings. This assumes we create a "model" by which one coach can more or less seamlessly take over from another, I'm not sure the extent to which that is possible.

The January and summer transfer windows will be interesting to see if they have effectively managed to iron-out the "who does what" difficulties and duplication that seemed apparent in August. If the money is available and we have another relative failure on our hands, then presuming Walsh has spent the interim period adapting to his role and streamlining the operation, then I think he will have to shoulder most of the responsibility. To me, that is what he signed up for as DoF. Some people expected a cart-load of signings to materialise overnight when Walsh arrived. To me, that was never going to happen. Whilst I'm still annoyed with how things unfolded in August, we have to consider that Man Utd completely cocked-up their 2013 summer window also, under much more favourable and advantageous circumstances.

You have to credit Southampton for being brave and sacking Adkins when they assessed they could do better with Pochettino. I admire that type of clear-cut ambition. Ultimately though, whilst their model appears successful, it is now being used in retrospect to justify continual poaching of their star players and managers. That is not a sustainable model in the long-term. Puel has started brightly but let's see how he does in the longer-term. It seems Soton can't win either way - succeed and he goes, fail and he goes. If that's it then Les Reed might as well start picking the team.

 

[tommye]

 

[coollino]

Too long.

 

[Gladystweet]

We're nine league games in to the season.






The end.

 

[Zatara]

Interesting piece. I think the appointment of a DoF is one of the best things we have done in years, credit to Moshiri there. Walsh undoubtedly has credentials as a scout, the DoF role should in theory be much more encompassing, so this is a test for him and quite clearly a settling-in period is needed, hopefully he is adapting and learning by the day. I wholeheartedly support the "continental" model, leaving managers/coaches free to spend the bulk of their time on game preparation, tactics, training, and team selection.

The almost universal view of Koeman is that his spell here will be relatively short-lived. I think it's also quite clear from his comments that he is more "hands-off" on transfers though you would still expect him to be central to the selection of at least some transfer targets. Over time, I do think its more than possible than a given Everton XI on the day will reflect a good deal more of Walsh's influence than Koeman's, and if Walsh is a stayer relative to Koeman, that is no bad thing. In effect, that emphasises how important Walsh now is at Everton, more so than Koeman in my view, given how central he will be to everything football-related.

Ultimately, Walsh may be even more critical in choosing a successor to Koeman (or, at least, making a recommendation) than he may be in identifying signings. This assumes we create a "model" by which one coach can more or less seamlessly take over from another, I'm not sure the extent to which that is possible.

The January and summer transfer windows will be interesting to see if they have effectively managed to iron-out the "who does what" difficulties and duplication that seemed apparent in August. If the money is available and we have another relative failure on our hands, then presuming Walsh has spent the interim period adapting to his role and streamlining the operation, then I think he will have to shoulder most of the responsibility. To me, that is what he signed up for as DoF. Some people expected a cart-load of signings to materialise overnight when Walsh arrived. To me, that was never going to happen. Whilst I'm still annoyed with how things unfolded in August, we have to consider that Man Utd completely cocked-up their 2013 summer window also, under much more favourable and advantageous circumstances.

You have to credit Southampton for being brave and sacking Adkins when they assessed they could do better with Pochettino. I admire that type of clear-cut ambition. Ultimately though, whilst their model appears successful, it is now being used in retrospect to justify continual poaching of their star players and managers. That is not a sustainable model in the long-term. Puel has started brightly but let's see how he does in the longer-term. It seems Soton can't win either way - succeed and he goes, fail and he goes. If that's it then Les Reed might as well start picking the team.

One thing which is interesting (and i mentioned in the summer) is that Koeman was appointed before a Director of Football. I can understand the need to have someone in training day to day but I would have expected the DOF to have been brought in first and bring with him a long term vision which would have included a type of manager needed.

Instead of this, Koeman was appointed first with perhaps an eye on him having shown he could work with a DOF at Southampton. However, i think we missed the point that the manager should fit into the clubs long term strategy rather than the DOF working under the manager.

I think that if Koeman and Walsh have the right synergy in terms of the type of football and players needed to fit then thats fine. However, i'd hope that this is more in line with our style of play during periods of success as opposed to Chelseas or Leicesters when Walsh was there.

In terms of recruitment, its good for us to have someone feted for his eye for a bargain player who could fit into the system and improve the side and also develop into a star. Its also got to be a benefit to have the Koeman name as he was such an iconic player.

In some ways i feel that a total gutting of the squad like Southampton have done could benefit Koeman as he would have a squad that suits his style. However would that be to the benefit of the club long term in line with a Walsh vision?

 

[Goat]

One thing which is interesting (and i mentioned in the summer) is that Koeman was appointed before a Director of Football. I can understand the need to have someone in training day to day but I would have expected the DOF to have been brought in first and bring with him a long term vision which would have included a type of manager needed.

Instead of this, Koeman was appointed first with perhaps an eye on him having shown he could work with a DOF at Southampton. However, i think we missed the point that the manager should fit into the clubs long term strategy rather than the DOF working under the manager.

I think that if Koeman and Walsh have the right synergy in terms of the type of football and players needed to fit then thats fine. However, i'd hope that this is more in line with our style of play during periods of success as opposed to Chelseas or Leicesters when Walsh was there.

In terms of recruitment, its good for us to have someone feted for his eye for a bargain player who could fit into the system and improve the side and also develop into a star. Its also got to be a benefit to have the Koeman name as he was such an iconic player.

In some ways i feel that a total gutting of the squad like Southampton have done could benefit Koeman as he would have a squad that suits his style. However would that be to the benefit of the club long term in line with a Walsh vision?

What you and David fail to grasp is that Koemans style is everything we ask for as fans.

High pressing, high energy direct football and no, direct doesnt mean pumping it to the big man, it means going from a to b as fast as we can.

We are currently in a transitional period, Koeman has got to train a group of players used to playing zombie tiki taka to play the style he wants, some of our players wont ever get it and they will be moved on and replaced by players that can play the system, but its going to take slightly longer than 2 freaking months.

 

[brieverton]

One thing which is interesting (and i mentioned in the summer) is that Koeman was appointed before a Director of Football. I can understand the need to have someone in training day to day but I would have expected the DOF to have been brought in first and bring with him a long term vision which would have included a type of manager needed.

Instead of this, Koeman was appointed first with perhaps an eye on him having shown he could work with a DOF at Southampton. However, i think we missed the point that the manager should fit into the clubs long term strategy rather than the DOF working under the manager.

I think that if Koeman and Walsh have the right synergy in terms of the type of football and players needed to fit then thats fine. However, i'd hope that this is more in line with our style of play during periods of success as opposed to Chelseas or Leicesters when Walsh was there.

In terms of recruitment, its good for us to have someone feted for his eye for a bargain player who could fit into the system and improve the side and also develop into a star. Its also got to be a benefit to have the Koeman name as he was such an iconic player.

In some ways i feel that a total gutting of the squad like Southampton have done could benefit Koeman as he would have a squad that suits his style. However would that be to the benefit of the club long term in line with a Walsh vision?

Given the circumstances over the summer the new manager was always going to be the priority. Ideally I agree you would want a DoF in first and I thought at one stage they might leave it be for a few months, but they must have been convinced by Walsh to appoint him. At least he came knowing he would work with Koeman, so I think we'll be fine.

Walsh did a marvellous job at Leicester, if we can make similarly canny signings it will have a huge impact for the good.