Progress

[Seamus Colemole]

I never heard Koeman saying that a top four finish next season is "unrealistic" but if he indeed said it

So far it seems the only person who did hear it is the same person who criticises "The Dutchman" for getting out of bed in the morning.

So take those alleged comments with a pinch of salt until someone proves otherwise.

Wow, Woolly has actually found his comments, and nowhere does he say "a top four finish next season is unrealistic". It's clearly in reference to this seasons poor away form and expecting us to break in to the top 4 after finishing in the bottom half 2 years in a row.

Thats whats unrealistic, not having a crack at it next season.

 

[MACCA75]

Radio Mersieyside reporter yesterday post game: "and you can now kick on next season and think about top four"?
The Dutchman: "yes but maybe top four is a little unrealistic"

Nothing fake news about that.

Tears at how different the actual quotes were!!

 

[bring the ghost on]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p051cq5z

Koeman starts talking just after 25 minutes.
Dave's right, but the context is more about this season than next.

Interviewer : How frustrating is that, because that seems to be the kind of thing that's keeping you back from breaking into that top four if you like, the away form ?

Koeman : Yea, but it's not realistic to expect Everton in the top four. We have overall, really good season, what we need to do now, is to prepare ourselves for last home game ... and what happens for next ( season - implied, not said ), we will see.

So, if you're pro-Koeman, you'll likely hear that and think he's acknowledging it wasn't realistic for us to think of top four this season, but he's not ruling it out for next. But if you're anti-Koeman, you'll interpret it differently as a man who doesn't think we're in with a shout of top four next season. I think we all know who fits into both camps !

Personally, I think with a good summer transfer window, we should expect to be much closer to the top four this time next year, but that doesn't mean we'll actually finish in the top four.

Cheers. Agree with your reading of the quote.

 

[ToffeeTim]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p051cq5z

Koeman starts talking just after 25 minutes.
Dave's right, but the context is more about this season than next.

Interviewer : How frustrating is that, because that seems to be the kind of thing that's keeping you back from breaking into that top four if you like, the away form ?

Koeman : Yea, but it's not realistic to expect Everton in the top four. We have overall, really good season, what we need to do now, is to prepare ourselves for last home game ... and what happens for next ( season - implied, not said ), we will see.

So, if you're pro-Koeman, you'll likely hear that and think he's acknowledging it wasn't realistic for us to think of top four this season, but he's not ruling it out for next. But if you're anti-Koeman, you'll interpret it differently as a man who doesn't think we're in with a shout of top four next season. I think we all know who fits into both camps !

Personally, I think with a good summer transfer window, we should expect to be much closer to the top four this time next year, but that doesn't mean we'll actually finish in the top four.

Don't see the issue. Top 4 wasn't realistic after we cocked up last summer. It will only be realistic next season if they don't cock up this summer. That said, no one at the club should be let off with defeatist nonsense, and defending mediocrity.

 

[Connor]

At one point in 14/15 Tim Sherwoods Aston Villa picked up a surprise win and we were 3 points off the relegation zone in the 2nd half of the season. A lot of people were rightly getting nervous then. Hindsight is wonderful for everyone to start calling others bed wetters but at the time we were probably playing the worst football in the league, we had Europe, the teams below us started to rally. It was worrying.

I don't remember that to be fair, I've done my best to black out most of his reign.

I do remember maybe being 6-7 points off the drop zone on a few occasions over the last 2 seasons but always maintaining the "we're too good to go down" stance.

There was only one way we were headed though, that is for sure.

 

[canuckblue]

At least Koeman is honest. A recent former manager would have been lauding a "phenomenal" jump to 7th place.

 

[davek]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p051cq5z

Koeman starts talking just after 25 minutes.
Dave's right, but the context is more about this season than next.

Interviewer : How frustrating is that, because that seems to be the kind of thing that's keeping you back from breaking into that top four if you like, the away form ?

Koeman : Yea, but it's not realistic to expect Everton in the top four. We have overall, really good season, what we need to do now, is to prepare ourselves for last home game ... and what happens for next ( season - implied, not said ), we will see.

So, if you're pro-Koeman, you'll likely hear that and think he's acknowledging it wasn't realistic for us to think of top four this season, but he's not ruling it out for next. But if you're anti-Koeman, you'll interpret it differently as a man who doesn't think we're in with a shout of top four next season. I think we all know who fits into both camps !

Personally, I think with a good summer transfer window, we should expect to be much closer to the top four this time next year, but that doesn't mean we'll actually finish in the top four.

There's nothing ambiguous about it. He was asked about away form and that stopping Everon being a top four challenger and he replied that it's unrealistic for Everton to be top four.

It can be looked at upside down and inside out if you like, but it's just a tortuous effort to make it sound like it wasn't what he said.

 

[bignev23]

I disagree completely and hope that everyone else would too.

Since when has the notion that we can't put up a realistic fight for a top four spot become acceptable? Certainly not before this season.

It's difficult, yes. But no manager can at the end of one season write off the possibility that we can nose in their next season. What sort of message does that send out to players who need little encouragement to knock off? A very poor one.

As a fan of course you want your team to be competitive or what's the point in it but I don't think there has been a season in the last 25 years where I have realistically been expecting Everton to finish in the top 4. That's the reality of were we've been as a club for the last quarter of a century. A few times I've thought we could have a chance and I've been excited and every season I've always hoped but I never expected it as as a demand, Big difference between hopes and expectations. Getting champions league would for me be overachieving and above my expectations right now and I think that's being pretty realistic at this point in time. ie next season will be his second season in charge as Koeman inherited a pretty mediocre team. it's all about the transfers to me, I think they're the key unless he or his replacements are given massive amounts then again I really can't see us getting there regularly in the future and I'm not trying to defend mediocrity which is what I see this season as for us but unfortunately it's the level we're at as a club and we'll finish right about where I and I suspect a lot of others expect this season. I can't see how we jump from this to top 4 without massive transfers over the next few windows and if that happens my expectations will change.

 

[davek]

At least Koeman is honest. A recent former manager would have been lauding a "phenomenal" jump to 7th place.

Was he honest after the Derby when he saw us carry out our game plan to perfection.

 

[canuckblue]

There's nothing ambiguous about it. He was asked about away form and that stopping Everon being a top four challenger and he replied that it's unrealistic for Everton to be top four.

It can be looked at upside down and inside out if you like, but it's just a tortuous effort to make it sound like it wasn't what he said.

His English isn't the best, Dave. I'm certain he implied it was unrealistic for top four this season.

 

[davek]

As a fan of course you want your team to be competitive or what's the point in it but I don't think there has been a season in the last 25 years where I have realistically been expecting Everton to finish in the top 4. That's the reality of were we've been as a club for the last quarter of a century. A few times I've thought we could have a chance and I've been excited and every season I've always hoped but I never expected it as as a demand, Big difference between hopes and expectations. Getting champions league would for me be overachieving and above my expectations right now and I think that's being pretty realistic at this point in time. ie His second season in charge as Koeman inherited a pretty mediocre team. it's all about the transfers to me, I think they're the key unless he or his replacements are given massive amounts then again I really can't see us getting there regularly in the future and I'm not trying to defend mediocrity which is what I see this season as for us but unfortunately it's the level we're at as a club and we'll finish right about where I and I suspect a lot of others expect this season. I can't see how we jump from this to top 4 without massive transfers over the next few windows and if that happens my expectations will change.

I don't demand or expect CL football. I demand and expect the manager though to tell me it's realistic....and it is realistic (tough, yes, but still realistic).

I don't want him telling me that 'it's Everton, it's not realistic'.

As said, let him hand back his £6m if that's what he thinks. We can get Puel in to get us to a cup final and midtable for half the price.

 

[bluestevon]

I don't demand or expect CL football. I demand and expect the manager though to tell me it's realistic....and it is realistic (tough, yes, but still realistic).

I don't want him telling me that 'it's Everton, it's not realistic'.

As said, let him hand back his £6m if that's what he thinks. We can get Puel in to get us to a cup final and midtable for half the price.

If 99 hear one thing and the other 1 hears something else, law of probability massively says the single person misheard what was said

 

[Amw79]

His English isn't the best, Dave. I'm certain he implied it was unrealistic for top four this season.

It was perfectly clear the top 4 comment was in the context of this season, as that was what the question was about - this seasons poor away form.

He carried on saying we have one more home game and wanted to finish it well with a win, then finished by saying "next season, we'll see".

Couldn't have been much clearer once you listen to it.

 

[davek]

His English isn't the best, Dave. I'm certain he implied it was unrealistic for top four this season.

Yeah, lost in translation I expect.

 

[davek]

If 99 hear one thing and the other 1 hears something else, law of probability massively says the single person misheard what was said

Who are the 99 who are saying one thing?

It's not even in the eye/ear of the beholder. It's there right in front of you to be read.