Possible dressing room unrest?

[The Mighty Quint]

Even Besic looked like he couldn't care less against Arsenal. Definitely problems.

Besic was 70% fit mate, he's a 100%er all day long if he's fit, he should have been playing yesterday, he'll be much fitter now than he was against Arsenal.

 

[witchdoc187]

you people are all crazy. Making up whole theories based on the shake of someone's head or the manager taking a poop at half time and being mad at Rom for using all the bog roll. These are all things that you have invented in your heads.

 

[Toffeeslam]

It would appear from the outside looking in this has got some legs in it

The performances have been very poor the last two games as we were never in a position to win them let alone throw them away. Could it be the dressing room has lost patience with Roberto and Roberto has lost the trust of the players ?

there has definitely been a performance down turn...like it was sh1t hot before like

The key man in this is Kenwright is he still has puppy dog eyes at Martinez to the universes frustration

Apart from DaveK of course

 

[D410]

Unrest? No because it appears the players are way past unrest. Divorced

 

[royalblue66]

it was only 3 games ago we beat Chelsea with a passionate and team spirited display, the 2 games since then have been against Arsenal and Utd who have much more to play for in the league than us. Im not saying its right but they must have wanted the 3 points more than us in both games and duly got them.
Give us something to play for like vs Chelsea in the FA and City in the Capital semi and we have beaten the best.
I don't think there is dressing room unrest, just low confidence and 'our league season is over' syndrome.
If we win the cup Id say give RM the beginning of next season to prove himself, if not then he has to go really...and that's the first time Ive thought and/or said that as Ive always given (sometimes blind) faith to our managers!

Not popular opinion but Id love to see what D Moyes could come in and do with the Moshiri cash this summer and the 'glass ceiling' is removed

Don't want to be giving a shed load of money to Martinez,at the start of next Season,hope he is gone come End of May.

 

[Toffeeslam]

Don't want to be giving a shed load of money to Martinez,at the start of next Season,hope he is gone come End of May.

It would be the biggest waste of money since the RBS bailout

 

[Muggins]

I was just having a think about the circumstances of some of the players being dropped by Martinez and have stumbled into something (in my own mind) which seems to make sense but i could be totally wrong.

This isnt a pro/anti Martinez post, its just something which im wondering about which could explain some weird decisions...which dont make logical sense to me...

A -- When we had Eto'o there were rumours of a falling out with Martinez and also that Eto'o due to his status in the game had brought over some other players against Martinez.

Now, the result of this was Eto'o being sold/released as soon as possible. Without knowing about any facts here or divisions at all it seemed a bit strange at the time.


B -- Distin as we all saw, went from being our lynchpin alongside Jags to putting in terrible performances. I havent been following him at Bournemouth so will just assume age caught up with him.

Therefore it makes sense that he was dropped for Stones (massively rated) and whilst he went downhill, Stones went uphill. What does appear strange is that Distin wasnt allowed to go to West Ham in the January window and apparently was promised game time (who knows) and yet was totally excluded.

C-- We had several situations with Mirallas making comments in the press and with his contract running down. However we (if media links are correct) only ever received a £6mil bid from West Ham for him which was rejected.

Once again though its odd that Mirallas would sign a contract extension and then very rarely get game time (although he got himself sent off). If they had an agreement or one side broke the agreement its very strange that after the West Ham game, Mirallas got onto the pitch at the first opportunity yesterday.


D -- Howard we have been told is a major dressing room influence. He has form for stirring up things in the press and also had to retract untruthful comments about Brad Friedel in his book. What had appeared to be a "jolly american" now seems to me to be someone totally different than he came across before.

Having established friendships and professional relationships with many players since he joined,Howard would be in a very strong position within the dressing room.

It was obvious to ALL (even the ones backing Howard in the end) that he was finished at this level. Yet Martinez kept picking him, it could be that there were footballing reasons behind this and he was badly advised by the goalkeeping coach Inaki Berghara.

However, is it not conceivable that Martinez approach to complimenting Howard at every opportunity and then finding him a club to move on to could be seen as quietly moving him on so as not to cause unrest?


E-- There is a pattern with certain players getting games all of a sudden and then dropped from the squad. Osman has been put into big games (fair enough he wasnt good enough) and then gone. Likewise Pienaar very similar situation.

Pienaar commented that he thought it was unfair that he would not hear about a new contract until the summer. However,even ignoring that he ditched us for Spurs or indeed that he has been injured for around 2 years he didnt prove himself on the pitch. Common sense would mean he kept his mouth shut and discussed this behind closed doors....also we can see with McGeady another example of shooting his mouth off in the press as soon as he went on loan. Gibson is a different case as despite his international manager and several pundits saying he may not make the euros if he didnt get game time,he refused to go on loan.

Even though he is apparently fit and has been for months hes not near the squad.


F-- Contract extensions were given out to Howard,Osman,Hibbert etc. Now in hibberts case that was especially odd. However isnt it possible that he wanted to keep a few oldies around the squad while it was in transition? These could also have been rewards for loyalty to him and would make sense as Hibbert is now possibly coming onto the coaching side.


Is it possible that Eto'o may have started divisions in the dressing room? Followed by Distin and then one or two others like Howard backed the manager? Then at risk of a major issue in the dressing room Martinez kept playing Howard until he presented him with an exit plan? McGeady of course was dropped as he was shocking, Gibson was dropped when finally fit and of course we have Pienaars comments....perhaps the out of contract players are being told "end of the season" to keep them quiet?


This could be a factor for our performances being up/down which Martinez has experienced since fhe 2nd season when he began to drop players (first season he played all of them or they were sold) and until now with some unwilling to leave but perhaps causing disruption?

It makes sense that from being a tightly knit unit under a stable Moyes tenure, when faced with outside well respected influences (Eto'o) during a period of change there would be unrest (fear for jobs/settled families not wanting to move etc).

I could be way off the mark here but perhaps some of these decisions were made due to having these problems and of course even Jagielka was made captain by Moyes after he knew he was leaving....changing captains could have led to more problems.

So, ignoring your thoughts on Martinez tactics etc is it not possible that with him clearly trying to change almost the entire squad he has had major unrest from within the camp? It may even be why Naismith wasnt allowed to leave in the summer but was punted after a very long period of negotiations just prior to Howard being shown the door (and kept around now for appearances sake).

This isnt me "creating excuses" for Martinez as some of you are so far gone its pointless...however could it be that the energy of the 1st season was eroded away and we may see the energy back once these dissenters are moved on in the summer?

Theres been a few posters on here hinting at this.

Honestly Zat, It's not possible to say what did and did not happen, but the scenarios you have posted are plausible for me.

I always try and remind myself that this is not football manager with robots, and that these are humans prone to good and bad days, kids stressing them out, mrs stressing them out etc etc.

Something behind the scenes is massively wrong, it can be the only logical explanation. But being football as opposed to Hollyoaks, we will never see the drama going on inside the club as that is not what we pay for.

I watched Martinez post match interview yesterday and he just talked rubbish for about 5 minutes. He looked like he was trying to make long sentenced excuses clad with big words to cover up something. He didn't look convinced with his own responses in my opinion.

I reckon everyone has thrown their toys out the pram and no-one is getting on at Goodison. The buzz of excitement, live press conferences and tea parties are long gone..

Thing is, we have just got a new majority share holder who is well minted. Maybe this is the time to start afresh from top to bottom??

 

[peteblue]

The players have nothing to play for other than keeping fit and doing just enough to get in the side for Wembley.......

 

[sixtynineseventy]

THIS, all his post match interviews are the same. He very rarely gives a credible assessment of games.

Honestly Zat, It's not possible to say what did and did not happen, but the scenarios you have posted are plausible for me.

I always try and remind myself that this is not football manager with robots, and that these are humans prone to good and bad days, kids stressing them out, mrs stressing them out etc etc.

Something behind the scenes is massively wrong, it can be the only logical explanation. But being football as opposed to Hollyoaks, we will never see the drama going on inside the club as that is not what we pay for.

I watched Martinez post match interview yesterday and he just talked rubbish for about 5 minutes. He looked like he was trying to make long sentenced excuses clad with big words to cover up something. He didn't look convinced with his own responses in my opinion.

I reckon everyone has thrown their toys out the pram and no-one is getting on at Goodison. The buzz of excitement, live press conferences and tea parties are long gone..

Thing is, we have just got a new majority share holder who is well minted. Maybe this is the time to start afresh from top to bottom??

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

I watched Martinez post match interview yesterday and he just talked rubbish for about 5 minutes. He looked like he was trying to make long sentenced excuses clad with big words to cover up something. He didn't look convinced with his own responses in my opinion.

I think this every time i see one of his interviews now, its like he is trying to play bingo with himself to see how many stupid positive words he can get into a presser without the press saying your having us on.

 

[eternal_defiance]

There are a lot of subtle things on the pitch that don't bode well. At one point Stones was having a go at someone after he conceded a corner around minute 67/68. I didn't mind him having a go (he should do it more) but afterwards he started rolling his eyes and being aggressive towards them. (I think it was McCarthy). It looked unprofessional and almost like "you're sh*t you, what are you doing in the team".

I worry what's happening in training or behind closed doors if that's all visible.

A similar thing happened when Baines gave the ball away late on, Niasse didn't give him a channel or put much effort in to offer himself and Baines looked like he was exasperated (what good are you? type look) and about to swear at him but thought better and tracked back instead.

 

[riddick]

Did Martinez not say yesterday when asked about the booing "you should hear it in the dressing room!"?

He speaks very oddly sometimes but that sounds like all is not well in there.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Did Martinez not say yesterday when asked about the booing "you should hear it in the dressing room!"?

He speaks very oddly sometimes but that sounds like all is not well in there.

things aren't all well, i would be shocked if they are internally at the club

 

[sageyefc]

when stuff like this starts appearing its only a matter of time before the axe falls

Led a revolt while on international duty?

 

[catcherintherye]

A similar thing happened when Baines gave the ball away late on, Niasse didn't give him a channel or put much effort in to offer himself and Baines looked like he was exasperated (what good are you? type look) and about to swear at him but thought better and tracked back instead.

I missed that one. It is never a good sign in any team when teammates turn on one another like that. At the end of the day you are a team not 11 individuals. Your job, especially as a senior player (in Baines case) is to try and protect the newer players.